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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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Dual Battery modification?


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30 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   OneSpeed

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 10:35 AM

Thanks for the replies.

A market for the Prius plug in already working out bug means the Fusion system is only a matter of time.







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#22 OFFLINE   jeff_h

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 11:42 AM

I've never heard of an extra battery in a Prius except an extreme modification. They have a plug-in hybrid also but they go less than 20 miles in EV.

 

Actually I think the Prius PHEV is rated at 11 miles on the HVB before it transitions to hybrid mode... great if your daily commute is only a few miles, but the benefit definitely diminishes beyond that.


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#23 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:38 PM

 

Actually I think the Prius PHEV is rated at 11 miles on the HVB before it transitions to hybrid mode... great if your daily commute is only a few miles, but the benefit definitely diminishes beyond that.

And it's only 6 miles continuous EV operation because the Prius electric motor is so weak that it can't properly accelerate the vehicle.


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#24 OFFLINE   OneSpeed

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 02:54 PM

I have read that our FFH is only good for up two miles in EV mode, so a second battery charged over night would make that 2 mile stretch seem short?

#25 OFFLINE   Easy Rider

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:53 PM

My coworker said that the Prius has an after market 2nd battery.
So I had to know about the Ford?

Your coworker is wrong.

 

Many have tried and to date, none has found that simply attaching additional battery capacity to any model of Prius has gained them anything.  One exception would be the plug-in model maybe but it already has a MUCH bigger battery than the others.



#26 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:28 PM

I have read that our FFH is only good for up two miles in EV mode, so a second battery charged over night would make that 2 mile stretch seem short?

You are talking about a plug in hybrid. Making a plug in out of a non-plug-in makes no economic sense particularly when the manufacturer makes one. The HVB is an expensive, fragile, dangerous device that would be very difficult to add to. The software is different and the onboard HVB charging from AC is a whole additional system. This is not remotely like paralleling two 12 vdc batteries.

 

There are two conflicting operations involved here. Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT desirable to maximize EV use in a hybrid because the EV cycle of generating-charging-discharging-motoring has more loss in many cases than driving the car through the gears to the wheels, particularly at higher speeds. All the hybrids have about a 1.5 Kwh HVB which is sized to provide a significant recovery of braking energy and provide cyclic use of EV at lower speeds all within a very narrow range of HVB charge which provides long battery life. Larger HVBs are not an advantage as it adds only cost, weight and reduced luggage capacity.

 

Plug in hybrids are an engineers nightmare. They try to find the middle ground between pure plug-in electrics range anxiety and hybrids. They don't do that very well and their price premium has been more unrecoverable than hybrids.

 

If you drove 20 miles a day with a plug in hybrid, you would only save $0.75 a day over the hybrid. For a year of commuting that would be less  than $200. That's with electricity at $0.12/kwh and gas at $3.00/gal and doesn't include amortizing a home charging station. If you got your electricity free it would only save $400.


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#27 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:17 PM

It still sounds to me like what you're trying to do is convert your hybrid into an Energi.  Given that the Energi gets around a $6000 tax advantage, you are trying to build an Energi for $6000 less than Ford is already doing it.  i really don't see how you will be successful.


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#28 OFFLINE   OneSpeed

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:07 PM

Thanks for the input.
Like I said, I am a hot rod guy and new the the hybrid so I want to learn.

#29 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:11 PM

Thanks for the input.
Like I said, I am a hot rod guy and new the the hybrid so I want to learn.


Whatever you end up doing be careful the 300+V DC of the HVB hurt a lot more than your average 110V outlet. ;)

Oh and keep us up to date if you don't mind.
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#30 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 09:48 AM

You mentioned that you had a budget for the car so you have a concern for money like most of us. I suspect any changes to the drive train would void the warranty. This would not be a car that would take kindly to things like aftermarket performance chips.



#31 OFFLINE   Raymondjram

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 05:19 PM

Thanks for the input.
Like I said, I am a hot rod guy and new the the hybrid so I want to learn.

I am a 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid owner and an Electrical Engineer. If you want to learn more about the Hybrid system and the battery, go and buy the Ford Service manual on DVD for the Fusion Hybrid/ Energi models (both are on the same DVD). You can get it at eBay for about $50. Then read and see the difference between them. If you really wish to learn more, watch the Weber Auto YouTube videos about the Fusion Hybrid battery disassembly: https://www.youtube.com/user/WeberAuto

 

I have done my part of investigation, and the only possible "upgrade" which I can see that can be done on the Hybrid is to add another Hybrid battery pack in parallel to double the current and power rating (to 3 kWh). This involves removing the Hybrid battery, modifying the connections, replacing the original Hybrid battery, and mounting the new battery in the free space of the trunk. The new battery will lose its monitoring. anyway

 

But adding an on-board charger is almost impossible. You can try an external DC charger and wire up a connector in the trunk for it. Even if you do get an Energi battery system, you cannot just do a "swap" and expect it to work. The system change affects the general driver interface programming more than any layperson can do.

 

As many here have recommended, it is easier and perhaps cheaper to trade in the Hybrid for a Energi. You do lose trunk space and the pass through that the Hybrid has  because the Energi pack is taller, adds more electronics (the AC-DC charger), and uses a larger 25 Ah cell versus the 5 Ah cell in the Hybrid. Try leasing the Energi for a year, test it, and then decide what to do.






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