Interior 12 Volt Outlet Question

[garymkrieg]

Have on order a 2015 Fusion Energi Titanium. We will be towing this car behind a motorhome. The braking system that we will be using has to plug into a 12 volt plug, ie cigarette lighter outlet. My question is this, the setup to tow includes turning the car the off as the last step. Are there any 12 volt outlets in the car that will stay powered, indefinitely, with the car turned off?

 

Gary

[Easy Rider]

This sounds like a really BAD idea.......since the 12 V battery in the hybrids have such low capacity.

 

I can imagine that using it to power the tail and brake lights while going down the road would cause you a dead battery problem REAL quickly.

 

I STRONGLY suggest that you contact the maker of the "brake system" to see what your alternatives are.

[garymkrieg]

I forgot to mention that we will be charging the small 12 volt battery from the motorhome while it is being towed, so no worries about the battery. We will also not be using the tail and brake lights of the car, instead using a separate brake light bar powered from the motorhome.

Gary

[GrySql]

Why not use the motorhome charging cable to the cars 12v battery to electrify the braking system?

Tap in a 12v outlet....

[lolder]

You need to read the Owners Guide for the FFE and the special instructions for towing to assure compatibility.

Edited October 6, 2014 by lolder

[GrySql]

You need to read the Owners Guide for the FFE and the special instructions for towing to assure compatibility.

Good idea, here's the 2015 Owner's Guide.

 

2015-Fusion-Hybrid-Energi-Owners-Manual-version-1_om_EN-US_05_2014.pdf

[garymkrieg]

I have read the towing instructions from the manual and there is no problem with what we plan to do. It's just that the last step in the manual is:

 

"Turn the vehicle off by pressing the ENGINE START/STOP button once. (Trip Summary appears in the left instrument cluster screen when the vehicle is off.)

 

So If there are no active 12 volt outlets with the car off, then we will do it another way.

 

Gary

[lolder]

The 12 vdc "Power Points" are active when the car is "off".

[murphy]

The 12 vdc "Power Points" are active when the car is "off".

Only for 70 minutes, then they shut off.

[Easy Rider]

 

I forgot to mention that we will be charging the small 12 volt battery from the motorhome while it is being towed, so no worries about the battery. We will also not be using the tail and brake lights of the car, instead using a separate brake light bar powered from the motorhome.

Gary

 

Sorry but I'm confused.

 

Why and how are you charging the 12 V in the car while it is being transported ?

 

And if the live 12 V socket in the car won't be used to power warning lights, what WILL it be used for ??

[garymkrieg]

The charge will come through the umbilical cord between the motorhome and the car. This is a standard setup that is used to keep the 12 volt battery charged while towing. In some of our travels we can go 7 or more days towing the car without ever disconnecting and running it. So again it is just to keep the 12 volt battery topped off.

 

Gary

[Easy Rider]

OK.....so not sure what that has to do with an active power outlet in the car......unless that is the point of connection for the charging.

 

I think you should be VERY careful with that, since the hybrid has a very small battery and if it is an AGM it is sensitive to over charging.

A check of the "float" voltage measured at the battery while in towing mode would definitely be in order.

 

And lastly, if the car really is left in the OFF mode all the time while being towed AND the 12 V battery is fully charged to start with, there should be absolutely no problem with going a week without applying any additional charge to it. If the battery is old and weak, that might be a different story.

 

Remaining OFF means no opening the doors or trunk or any other actions that activates lights or the READY mode momentarily.

[GrySql]

I think you should be VERY careful with that, since the hybrid has a very small battery and if it is an AGM it is sensitive to over charging.

 

It's a standard wet cell battery, not an AGM.

 

Page 140 of the 2015's Owner's Manual tells you all about the 12v power points. They are not made to charge the 12v battery.

 

Ford recommends charging the 12v battery from the charging points under the hood, not directly on the battery in the trunk compartment. Pg 230 in the 2015 OM.

 

Edited October 9, 2014 by GrySql

[lolder]

Only for 70 minutes, then they shut off.

My 2010 12 vdc power points are on all the time.

[murphy]

My 2010 12 vdc power points are on all the time.

The OP asked the question about a 2015 Fusion. The characteristics of a 2010 don't answer his request.

[BoomerGer]

Those are awful small charging points to connect anything to to get the charging down, should they need it.

[Easy Rider]

It's a standard wet cell battery, not an AGM.

 

 

Ford recommends charging the 12v battery from the charging points under the hood, not directly on the battery in the trunk compartment. Pg 230 in the 2015 OM.

 

 

The OEM battery might not be an AGM but a replacement might be. My post did say "if".

 

And the smaller a battery IS, the more sensitive it is to over-charging, regardless of the type.

 

I would recommend charging it from there too because it is MUCH more convenient in most circumstances but electrically it makes NO DIFFERENCE.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Easy Rider

[GrySql]

The OEM battery might not be an AGM but a replacement might be. My post did say "if".

 

And the smaller a battery IS, the more sensitive it is to over-charging, regardless of the type.

 

I would recommend charging it from there too because it is MUCH more convenient in most circumstances but electrically it makes NO DIFFERENCE.

I saw the 'if' and just linked to another post to clarify.

I think most people that are used to standard gas only cars expect the battery to be under the hood, so Ford provided a non-enclosed engine bay position for accessibility. Plus, a chassis ground is usually the preferred place for the negative charging cable to be attached.

Ford has a lot of cautions about sparks, enclosed spaces and battery fumes in the Owners Manual so the engine bay positive/negative posts solve that liability.

[garymkrieg]

Easy Rider, even though the car is off the electric brake booster is always active, according to my understanding. As a result every time the brakes are applied by the portable braking system the brake booster will engage and drain the battery.

 

Gary

[Easy Rider]

Easy Rider, even though the car is off the electric brake booster is always active, according to my understanding. As a result every time the brakes are applied by the portable braking system the brake booster will engage and drain the battery.

 

Gary

I understand no such thing and think it would be odd indeed if it really was equipped that way.

 

[edit] Is this a "real" brake by wire system, in that there really is no mechanical connection between the brake pedal and the brake master cylinders ?

If so, you would NEED to have the brake system constantly powered or else you would have NO BRAKES if the car was rolling in neutral with the engine off.

 

Also you are assuming that the car's brake system will somehow be tied into the towing vehicle and that usually is NOT the case; much too difficult and expensive to accomplish with the required degree of control.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Easy Rider

[gkinla]

Easy Rider, even though the car is off the electric brake booster is always active, according to my understanding. As a result every time the brakes are applied by the portable braking system the brake booster will engage and drain the battery.

 

Gary

 

The braking system is boosted hydraulic. If you lose the electric boost pump the brakes are still hydraulic but have a very hard pedal application to stop, just like a conventional ICE. Except with the FFH, the initial gentle braking is done with the battery regeneration system. Unless the brakes are used in an emergency, then it's a full caliper operation, along with regeneration. The boost pump is not operational when the ignition switch is off. You can pump the brakes with the ignition off and the pump never comes on. Turn the ignition on and the boost pump starts immediately.

Edited October 21, 2014 by gkinla

[hybridbear]

The boost pump is not operational when the ignition switch is off. You can pump the brakes with the ignition off and the pump never comes on. Turn the ignition on and the boost pump starts immediately.

Really? I thought that when the car is unlocked or the door is opened that the booster pump kicks on. I know that if I get in the car but don't start it and step on the brake pedal I can hear the pump kick in as well. It also kicks in when I keep my foot on the brake after shutting off the car but before getting out.

[Easy Rider]

To simulate towing, you would need to sit in the car until EVERYTHING shuts off.......what, a couple of minutes......and then push the brake pedal a couple of times.

 

Anyway......IF the brake lights won't be in use during the tow, that should mean that the BRAKES aren't going to be in use either.

AND.....connecting the car to some kind of brake controller that would operate the brakes would likely be complicated and expensive and maybe not even practical to do.

 

Maybe I'm missing out on a critical piece of information here but having the "truck" charge the battery in the car just doesn't seem necessary, or even desirable, to me.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Easy Rider

[garymkrieg]

There was a thread in either the Fusion Hybrid or Cmax Hybrid forum where a member was surprised that the brakes were active after he parked in his driveway. Naturally, I can't find the post. But the point of the post was that the brakes always seem to be active even with the ignition off.

 

Gary

[garymkrieg]

Ok, I found the thread http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/374-recreational-towing-behind-a-motor-home/page-5it starts talking about the brakes at post #86 and seems to be concluded on post #91.

 

Gary