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Worst car in the world is...


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#1 OFFLINE   ny2oc1996

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:01 AM

According to the new 2013 J.D. Power quality survey released on Wednesday, the worst car in the world for quality is the Ford C-Max. The C-Max finished dead last in the latest 2013 survey with more consumer complaints than any other vehicle. The C-Max scored 222 complaints per 100 vehicles sold compared to the industry average of 113. Many complaints were related to the MyFord Touch infotainment system. Supposedly Ford fired a pre-emptive strick against this upcoming J.D. Power survey on Monday by announcing they are throwing in the towel and will now add low-tech knobs to their confusing electronic touch systems. Given the fact that our Fusuion shares the same powerplant and MyFord touch system as the C-Max this is somewhat disturbing news.

 

http://www.usatoday....dy-iqs/2440589/

 

 

The surprising news is the dramatic rise in quality for GM. In 23 separate vehicle categories, J.D. Powers rates the top three vehicles in order. GM placed 14 vehicles on this "best of" list. Ford placed one (the Mustang which actually was tied with Camaro). According to J.D. Power's vice president Dave Sargent, GM now has the best quality of any car corporation in the industry! Of the 33 vehicle manufacturers, Ford placed near the very bottom (27th). 

 

http://www.usatoday....m-ford/2437115/

 

 

Although Ford has been seeing strong sales on Fusion, F-150 etc. there have been problems elsewhere in the line. Ford like GM has finally been thinning the herd of dead weight. Ford shelved the entire Mercury brand and Lincoln sales have not been good. Industry insiders are wondering if the Lincoln brand can survive. Even in the Ford line some models are being eyeballed such as the Flex. Flex sales are down 23.9% over last year which was a paltry year to begin with. Consumers have likened it to a rolling refrigerator.

 

Now to be fair it can be said that many of Ford's quality issues are the result of pushing cutting edge technology such as their MyFord Touch infotainment system and their Ecoboost engine designs. There certainly is some truth in that as many other car makers, including German ones have experienced some of the same growing pains. It should also be noted that some brands such as Lexus have avoided any of the electronic issues. Yet Toyota, Honda and Nissan have just recalled over 3 million vehicles for dangerous airbag issues.

 

My own personal view is to avoid making generalizations and look at each issue separately. The Apple iPhone was the gold standard in cutting edge technology and build quality yet we witnessed the siri voice issues and the Apple maps debacle. So I give the MyFord Touch a pass although removing all the knobs was poor design planning.

 

Leaking Ford fuel lines resulting in fires? Sorry Ford, this is strickly rank amatuer. Fifty years ago double steel walled fuel lines with double flared ends threaded in place did not leak. And the overheating due to insufficient electric engine cooling fan operation? This is not rocket science and does make you wonder. After a flawed design is proposed, what kind of quality control team carefully checks/tests this and gives a big stamp of approval?

 

Finally, Ford gets high marks for handling these issues. They really were for the most part open about them and moved quickly to resolve them. That counts for something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#2 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:02 AM

Part of the reason Flex sales are low is they DONT advertise it!  Once someone gets past the outer looks of it and actually gets in and drives it, totally different outcome.  It is surprisingly roomy inside, handles very well and is very versatile, and its Ford's fault it isnt selling well.   I heard they dont push it because they cant make enough of them, so who knows.   Try finding one on a dealers lot, very few of them available, and usually they are either the low end SE, or loaded up Limited, and they also pulled the Ecoboost SEL model. 

 

As far as the ranking, if the major complaints are regarding the ability to use the MFT, due to being confusing, and the learning curve, and not due to reliability or mechanical issues, then that ranking is not well deserved.  Its the same story with CR with these cars, they get low balled because people have a hard time learning new things, and the glitches the system has.   I do think Ford screwed up releasing it in so many cars before it was fully functional, the old system worked so much better, never had a problem with it in the Fusion or F150. 


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#3 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:51 AM

Very sad to hear. I hope they get the quality issues figure out soon. Both the FFH & C-Max seem to have a lot of build quality issues

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#4 OFFLINE   jeff_h

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

Very sad to hear. I hope they get the quality issues figure out soon. Both the FFH & C-Max seem to have a lot of build quality issues

 

Well if a good chunk of those reported issues are related to MFT, then otherwise the rest falls into place as pretty normal, doesn't it? 

 

On the Fusion build issues, maybe running a steady stream of max (or more) plant capacity is a factor there, as I noted months ago how the rubber stripping was not properly installed on either side of my pax doors - which seems to be as a simple human error.  Nope it shouldn't happen, but my thinking is that the higher the pace, the easier it is to overlook small things.


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#5 OFFLINE   aaronj1159

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

They were saying that GM isn't expected to stay ranked so high due to the large number of 1st model year vehicles they're about to release. In short, they're about to have the problems Ford is with the C-Max and the Fusion.



#6 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

Ford has by far the highest industry % take rate on the "high-tech" systems is MFT.  If you actually look closely at the numbers, you see that other manufacturers have very similar complaint levels on their MFT equivalent systems.  Cadilac's CUE and Acura's new system actually have more compaints per user than Ford's MFT.  The problem for Ford is that such a high percentage of their sales now have MFT, that it brings the overall average down.  As other OEMs start selling more and more high-tech systems, their numbers will drop down to where Ford currently is or below.


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#7 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:21 AM

 

 

Leaking Ford fuel lines resulting in fires? Sorry Ford, this is strickly rank amatuer. Fifty years ago double steel walled fuel lines with double flared ends threaded in place did not leak. And the overheating due to insufficient electric engine cooling fan operation? This is not rocket science and does make you wonder. After a flawed design is proposed, what kind of quality control team carefully checks/tests this and gives a big stamp of approval?

 

Just to clear up a couple points, it's not actually the fuel line that's leaking.  It's the little nipple on the fuel pump assembly that can crack and leak. I haven't seen any proof one way or the other that this is a design problem or a supplier quality (material properties?) issue, but it's not uncommon for a supplier to provide nice, carefully made, thoroughly checked parts to Ford for all the testing, then to make slight changes once high volume production gets underway.

Also the overheating issue had nothing to do with fan operation.  it was Ford trying to advance cooling system design by introducing a bunch of bypass valves and strategy to rapidly heat the coolant, but missing a key failure mode in the system.  The failure mode is not a mode that could happen in a conventional cooling system, so I would say that yes, it is bordering on the rocket science level.


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#8 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:29 PM

Ford has by far the highest industry % take rate on the "high-tech" systems is MFT.  If you actually look closely at the numbers, you see that other manufacturers have very similar complaint levels on their MFT equivalent systems.  Cadilac's CUE and Acura's new system actually have more compaints per user than Ford's MFT.  The problem for Ford is that such a high percentage of their sales now have MFT, that it brings the overall average down.  As other OEMs start selling more and more high-tech systems, their numbers will drop down to where Ford currently is or below.

In a way though, this will work out in Fords benefit as the others get more out in theirs, by then Ford will have the bugs worked out and will be at the top then in the tech side, with the rest playing catch up.   Another factor is the human factor. What Ford engineers might think of as simple and easy to use, can be quite the opposite when it comes to what we call "Layer 8" ( IT people who understand the 7 Layers of IP will get this one) users who have a hard time using a microwave to boil water. So in a sense we the consumer help Ford make a better system by using it and bitching about how this doesn't work, or this is a pain to use, etc. 

 

Always look on the bright side of life. 


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#9 OFFLINE   djminfll

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:35 PM

To be honest, if Ford was #1 and my car was a lemon, I would hate the car; likewise, if Ford was last on the list and my car had no issues, I'd still love the car. 

What astounds me, however, is that some of the notoriously least reliable brands are so high on the list. No offense to anyone who might own one of these, but Chrysler, Land Rover, Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar, Ram and GMC all are higher on the list than Ford. I would not ever consider one of these cars because of their reputations for horrendous reliability. In addition, when something does go wrong with a Land Rover, M-B, or Jaguar, the repair costs are substantially higher. 


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#10 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:46 PM

Actually I am going to throw out another point of view.  JD Power has been known to play "politics" with their ratings.  I have read multiple of articles over the last few years about their political slant on their findings.  Either way you look at the article, it seems slanted to me.  I am NOT going to comment or debate my interpretation, but just be advised from an opinionated old cowboy that not all things are as good, or as bad, as the press sometimes presents.  There are lots of reasons to slant news, or opinions in these articles.  I see one in this ....   :)

 

JMHO


Edited by rjent, 21 June 2013 - 09:20 PM.

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#11 OFFLINE   Aquineas

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:47 PM

Well, suck it up Ford. Time to get your stuff together and fix it; it's as simple as that.

Edited by Aquineas, 21 June 2013 - 03:47 PM.

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I'd rather you tell me something I already know 1,000 times, than not tell me something I don't know once.

 

 


#12 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

Actually I am going to throw out another point of view.  JD Power has been know to play "politics" with their ratings.  I have read multiple of articles over the last few years about their political slant on their findings.  Either way you look at the article, it seems slanted to me.  I am NOT going to comment or debate my interpretation, but just be advised from an opinionated old cowboy that not all thing are as good, or as bad, as the press sometimes presents.  There are lots of reasons to slant news, or opinions in these articles.  I see one in this .... :)

 

JMHO

Um yeah, news these days, cant believe a word they say anymore. Journalism is dead, money talks, BS walks as they say.


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#13 OFFLINE   Sleddog

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

As far as the ranking, if the major complaints are regarding the ability to use the MFT, due to being confusing, and the learning curve, and not due to reliability or mechanical issues, then that ranking is not well deserved.  Its the same story with CR with these cars, they get low balled because people have a hard time learning new things, and the glitches the system has.   I do think Ford screwed up releasing it in so many cars before it was fully functional, the old system worked so much better, never had a problem with it in the Fusion or F150. 

 

My wife is not very tech orientated.  The idea of the touch screen has her a little leery of the driving a FFH.  She will get the hang of it after using it for a while.  She has even said, if it's too difficult for her to operate the MFT, she will not drive the car.  Sometimes the learning curve is so steep, people give up on using something like this instead of learning what is needed to operate it correctly.  And that can skew the numbers.


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#14 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:11 PM

They should have partnered with Apple there isn't a much simpler to understand "HMI" ( human machine interface ) out there IMO.

I design HMI's or Operator interfaces for all kinds of machines as part of my job and nothing is more important than clear and understandable interface that doesn't need much explaination (operators aren't highly paid people) and that's what the MFT is for the most part.

There are a few things that I can point to and say that's not good.
One requirement I have is if you change a page and the same button exist on both pages this button can't move locations; MFT needs some work in that respect.
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#15 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:23 PM

I think that the main problem with the "interface" (and I too have developed HI's) is that the system is trying to protect us from ourselves too much.  There may be too much of that in every facet of life lately .... 



#16 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:52 PM

@ rjent

You are probably right about the protect us from ourselves but that's the fine line you will always walk on designing stuff like this!
For some people like us it's too protective and for others they aren't protected enough. It's almost like either way you go will be wrong for people at each end of the bell curve. Just my opinion since I know how difficult compromise can be.
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#17 OFFLINE   Riggo

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:46 AM

I never understand the complaints with MFT. I love it (except for the "sheduled system maintenance" reboot). I guess there is a good amount of people that are not tech savvy. I'm glad I got this car before they ruin it with a bunch of unneeded buttons and dials.

Edited by Riggo, 22 June 2013 - 10:36 AM.

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#18 OFFLINE   elle

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:10 AM

There are issues with MFT, but being "confusing" is not one of them, unless you are completely tech-challenged, as many of these reviewers seem to be.  You have four functions and each has been assigned a corner of the screen for quick access.  Once there, the information is readily apparent.  I think that the real issue is that there are too many crotchety old men writing car reviews.  


Edited by elle, 22 June 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#19 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:43 PM

The one issue I do have with MFT is not being able to access certain screens unless you are at the home screen. If I want to go to Info or Settings and in Entertainment, I should be able to, but it doesn't allow it.

 

My other gripe is with my Flex. the CD/DVD eject touch button is in such a place that I am always touching it when using the MFT, and have to wait for the stupid, No CD splash to go away.  Both MFT's are the same, only the FFH has the Hybrid screen in addition to the rest.

 

On the Hybrid Screen, with all this tech behind it, you would think they would have at least a couple other screens like the 2010 had, where you can also see your MPG graph as well as charge levels and instant. Would be great to have it there as well as the left panel on the dash. You could then have all the information  there at a glance instead of switching between screens on the steering wheel.


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#20 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 08:58 AM

On the Hybrid Screen, with all this tech behind it, you would think they would have at least a couple other screens like the 2010 had, where you can also see your MPG graph as well as charge levels and instant. Would be great to have it there as well as the left panel on the dash. You could then have all the information  there at a glance instead of switching between screens on the steering wheel.

I agree. If the 2013 had offered this kind of information on the center screen we would have paid the extra money to get the center touch screen and MFT


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