New Transmission

[Texasota]

That occurred to me as well, but after thinking about the corporate way of handling things I came up with these scenarios:

-

A. Issue a TSB = 30 minutes on the Ford IDS shop laptop to reprogram certain Modules and no hardware = Low cost workaround and a clear Corporate legal conscience.

or

B. Admission of a failed Ford Hybrid system, engineering/designing the Retrofit eCVT lubrication kit, notification of 200,000+ owners, install shop time, reprogram PCM and other modules = BIG Bucks.

 

While it is possible that there is a serious lurking problem here we don't know that yet and as mwr previously stated this is all speculation at this point. Lolder has also suggested that the problem (speculation) is being caused by the software change that increased the maximum EV speed from the original 63 MPH (speculation). But if Lolder's speculation is correct, then it would seem option A would be the correct and proper solution as opposed to B.

[hybridbear]

Considering that the increase in maximum EV speed in the FFH to 85 MPH did not increase the EPA ratings it would be possible for Ford to change it back through a TSB or Customer Satisfaction Program to deal with the failures if they determine that to be the cause. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen design includes the auxiliary pump on both the Hybrid and Energi models.

[acdii]

I did some slow speed checking, it makes the weird noise below 5 MPH.

[GrySql]

 

While it is possible that there is a serious lurking problem here we don't know that yet and as mwr previously stated this is all speculation at this point. Lolder has also suggested that the problem (speculation) is being caused by the software change that increased the maximum EV speed from the original 63 MPH (speculation). But if Lolder's speculation is correct, then it would seem option A would be the correct and proper solution as opposed to B.

That was pretty good speculating on our speculating... ;)

[acdii]

But if your speculation and my speculation equals or exceeds Lolders speculation, are we over speculating this?

[lolder]

I did some slow speed checking, it makes the weird noise below 5 MPH.

That points to the mechanical brakes.

[acdii]

nope, not applying brakes, just idling along at 5 MPH makes a whining thumping noise.

[hybridbear]

nope, not applying brakes, just idling along at 5 MPH makes a whining thumping noise.

HVB discharging or charging? Does shifting to Neutral make a difference?

[Texasota]

That was pretty good speculating on our speculating... ;)

Speculation makes for great entertainment. I love this forum. :) But all this speculation about transmission noises is making me paranoid every time my car makes a new/different noise (especially after my Ford Focus transmission woes).

Edited April 1, 2015 by Texasota

[GrySql]

nope, not applying brakes, just idling along at 5 MPH makes a whining thumping noise.

Was the car in gear using the 'Creep Mode' programming or were you applying gas pedal sensor pressure?

 

-

By any chance are you missing one of your garage cats?

[acdii]

This happens when making it move, very light pressure on the pedal to keep it going, so drawing power off the HVB. It also makes it slowing down with regen. Something doesnt feel right with the car lately. Yesterday I managed to get 47 MPG going home, today 41, though it was windy, but the wind was off my rear quarter, and not from the front. Regen was soft once again, this morning it was fine, I actually got better MPG going to work than coming home, which is really odd. Not only that but the steering felt heavy, and would not return to center going through curves. Also feeling intermittent vibrations in the steering, but I just have my tires rotated, so its possible one is off balance. I felt the heavy steering last week too, before having the tires rotated, so it isnt that. The Regen kicks out when turning when the wheel is at 95* from horizontal, just as it passes vertical in the turn is when it kicks out, then when I go past that point the kick back in. Does it in both directions.

 

Wondering if the steering is going bad.

 

 

Forgot to mention, it was also in the mid 70's. That alone should have resulted in higher MPG, so I am really baffled as to what the hell is going on under the hood. No codes so taking it in is a waste of time.

Edited April 2, 2015 by acdii

[GrySql]

No codes so taking it in is a waste of time.

You have a good rapport with your Dealer and have a repeatable issue. Document the things as they happen and video if possible (safely).

I don't think taking it to your friendly local Dealer is a waste of time, getting stuck on the way to work is a waste of time.

[lolder]

Maybe it's a wheel bearing.

[lolder]

In replying to another post today, I realized the 2010 Owners Guide says you can 4 wheel tow a FFH all day with only a recommendation to run the ICE 5 minutes at the beginning and end of each day and each fuel stop which I interpret as charging the LVB. Maybe the transmission oil pumps are for cooling instead of lubrication because everything in the eCVT except the ICE is turning while towing. There is no electrical heat generated in the MGs while towing.

 

I see Airbusguy already pointed this out some time ago, sorry.

 

In towing, there is essentially no torque on the MGs which would be somewhat less bearing stress.

Edited April 2, 2015 by lolder

[Texasota]

In replying to another post today, I realized the 2010 Owners Guide says you can 4 wheel tow a FFH all day with only a recommendation to run the ICE 5 minutes at the beginning and end of each day and each fuel stop which I interpret as charging the LVB. Maybe the transmission oil pumps are for cooling instead of lubrication because everything in the eCVT except the ICE is turning while towing. There is no electrical heat generated in the MGs while towing.

 

I assume the 2013+ FFHs have the same 4 wheel tow capability? Posts in various threads have speculated that long stints in EV mode (like going down a long grade) might be causing a lubrication issue and possibly playing a role in transmission failures.

 

Lolder, are you saying that the previous speculation is likely incorrect because 4 wheel towing would cause the same problem?

[lolder]

The difference between towing and EV is that in EV, there is more torque on everything and more heat generated so the transmission fluid needs to be cooled more. If the towing produces no failures, it would follow that the heat is more important than the lack of lubrication. The point is we don't know. Any failures are bad for this system. Maybe we'll find out that it was only a few faulty parts or assembly. There weren't ( any ? ) failures like this when Aisin was building almost the identical product for the 200,000 2004-12 Escapes, FFHs, Mercs and Lincolns.

The Escapes had some problems with Motor/ Electronics brushed coolant pumps but replaced them with brushless pumps that is now the norm.

[acdii]

OK, I got a sound file that I captured using the iphone and car mic. Its faint but it is definitely there at about the 1 minute mark

 

Tried to upload it. but cant upload an m4a file.

 

 

[hybridbear]

When going down a long grade in EV mode you are usually doing regen which creates significant heat & friction. The highest temps we saw for TFT on our road trip were when descending out of the mountains.

[Texasota]

While at my dealership on 4/3/2015 for oil change and tire rotation I asked my service manager if they have had any FFH transmissions failures that required replacement and he said none. That was reassuring and a much more encouraging story as compared to conversations with him regarding the DCT transmissions in the Focus.

[scn101]

You might need to count me in the unfortunate group. 2014 HyTi FFH with 12K miles. Had the evap replaced two months ago, all good. Lately over the past month I've noticed a growling noise when the FFH exits EV mode and the ICE starts. This growl or grinding noise gets louder with engine RPM. Isn't always present, I would say about half the time. The dealer drove the car and compared it to a new FFH on their lot. They stated that the noise wasn't on the new vehicle and didn't seem right. After lots of time driving and diagnosing my vehicle they call me, new transmission needed. Ouch. I'm the second FFH with a faulty transmission at their dealership.

 

So far, evap replaced, heated steering wheel control module replaced, driver's seat back leather replaced due to abnormal wear on piping, SYNC module replaced (APIM module), and now this. My dealer has been great and all repairs were done well. But now I'm a bit concerned about my vehicle's reliability/quality. Now I'm driving a snazzy red 2014 Focus as the dealer contacts Ford about the transmission. They don't want to give me back the car as they said the previous vehicle with the same concern (noise) would shut down and not restart, so I'm happy to have a loaner.

Edited April 10, 2015 by scn101

[acdii]

Hmm, the growl comes and goes? I seem to notice that too, and thought it was just my imagination. I can say the regen braking is NOT my imagination. That is real and I hope to hell they can figure out why it does this before I wind up rear ending someone because the car wouldn't slow down.

[scn101]

I think the car will always slow down as the hydraulic brakes will kick in as you depress the brake pedal so I don't think you have a safety worry. I hope your dealer will identify and repair the issue soon!

[acdii]

Thats just it, they do and yet they don't. They just feel wrong. Regular brakes should not kick in while slowing in regen, yet there are times they come on and off a bit, its a feeling I get when braking and the brake coach confirms it with low scores. The high amps I see when it is not working correctly puzzles me, with 50+ amps being generated the car should feel like its slowing quickly, but it is hardly even slowing, and when it is slowing the way it should the amps generated are much lower. I need to figure out a way to video record the dash and scangauge safely to be able to point out the differences.

 

Oh one other thing I noticed, when it is not working correctly the HVB charge is slow to go up, but when it does work properly I can see a decent charge get applied, so where is that 50+ amps going?

[lolder]

It sounds like something really wrong in the transmission, power electronics or MGs. I'd stop driving it and give the dealer the car and tell them to call you when it's fixed. The high current is ominous and unlikely due to a bad ABS component.

Edited April 12, 2015 by lolder

[acdii]

Today the regen brakes worked perfectly. However I did hear the grinding again, it comes and goes, so I know it is not the tires. I drop it off tomorrow after work.