Hybrid Coolant Flush Questions - Much Fusion Confusion

[gaken]

I have a 2010 Fusion Hybrid with 100,000 miles. I recently scheduled a drain & fill of BOTH engine and battery coolant systems at my local Ford dealership. This is the first coolant change on this vehicle ( 1st scheduled maintenance is at 100,000 miles).

 

What I got was an engine coolant flush for about $100. I was doubtful that this service affected the hybrid battery coolant. Upon calling the Ford.com customer service number, they told me that A) it, in fact, does affect both coolant systems and B) This is all that needs to be done. They also said that the hybrid battery depends heavily on air circulation cooling.

 

Questions to anyone knowledgeable about this:

 

1) Do both coolant systems interchange or touch each other? I notice TWO reservoirs under the hood and only one radiator. I also noticed two separate coolant capacities. Something does not add up, or someone is lying to me.

 

2) If the hybrid battery coolant systems do NOT interchange, how is the hybrid battery coolant supposed to be changed - and at what interval?

 

Much Fusion confusion among the local dealerships around me. Most dealerships have not done this service on this vehicle. Can someone explain and add a schematic of what needs to be done?

 

By the way, this is the best vehicle (among many) I have owned. I see 40 mpg on a bad day under bad conditions. Have seen as high as 52 mpg under ideal trips and conditions here in Tennessee. I use Motorcraft FULL Synthetic

5W20. Bought a bunch of it at an Advance Auto Parts clearance sale of $2/qt, a couple of years ago. Hope to get 400,000 miles out of it.

[murphy]

The hybrid battery is air cooled. Only the Focus Electric has a liquid cooled battery.

The two tanks under the hood are for engine coolant and motor/electronics coolant.

 

From the Owner's Manual

 

ENGINE COOLANT AND MOTOR/ELECTRONICS COOLANT
Your vehicle is equipped with two separate coolant systems. One is for
engine cooling and the other is for various electric motors and other
components that are specific to the hybrid operating systems.

Maintenance and Specifications
Page 282
2010 Fusion Hybrid (hfv)
Owners Guide, 3rd Printing
USA (fus)

[gaken]

Thanks for the quick reply Murphy.

 

Now how is the motor/electronics coolant:

 

a) supposed to be changed? Drain & fill? Flushed? From a trunk location or engine location?

b) at what interval?

c) would that coolant have been changed at the same time I had the engine flush? Receipt says "Flush radiator and block. Heater core with engine cooling flush machine. Add to proper level."

[lolder]

Motor / electronics change at 100k also. It's up front and I don;t know where the drain is. Tell the dealer to contact Ford and when they know how to do it to call you.

[Easy Rider]

Unless there is/was some evidence of abnormal corrosion in the system, the "flush" probably was not necessary and it is a "high margin" item for the dealers.

 

Same for the electric system only moreso since it probably does not get NEARLY as hot as the engine one does.

 

Best policy is to stick with the BOOK recommendaions and not the shop's.......unless you enjoy over-paying or think they deserve a bonus.

[acdii]

Coolant breaks down over time, so even if the electronic system doesn't generate much heat, the corrosion protection does break down, so it should be replaced as scheduled. There is a drain in the cooling system that they drain it from, and then fill it up with fresh coolant.

 

For $100 they had better have changed both. What you can do is ask the dealer where the other drain is at. If you get deer in the headlights look, you can bet it wasn't changed.

[Easy Rider]

Yes but HEAT breaks it down faster.

While some case can be made for changing the ICE coolant more often than recommended, I can see absolutely NO reason to change the battery coolant sooner.

[acdii]

There is no battery coolant in the Fusion. There is the ICE, and the Inverter/Motor coolant system. The inverter system doesnt get nearly as hot as the ICE does, The temps are nearly constant once it reaches peak. They need to be separate from each other since the temps from the ICE would overheat the other system. I think HB posted somewhere they only get to about 125*.

[hybridbear]

There is no battery coolant in the Fusion. There is the ICE, and the Inverter/Motor coolant system. The inverter system doesnt get nearly as hot as the ICE does, The temps are nearly constant once it reaches peak. They need to be separate from each other since the temps from the ICE would overheat the other system. I think HB posted somewhere they only get to about 125*.

140-150F is the peak for the inverters. I haven't spent enough time monitoring the stator coil temps to get a good read on their range.

Edited May 13, 2014 by hybridbear

[gaken]

Coolant breaks down over time, so even if the electronic system doesn't generate much heat, the corrosion protection does break down, so it should be replaced as scheduled. There is a drain in the cooling system that they drain it from, and then fill it up with fresh coolant.

 

For $100 they had better have changed both. What you can do is ask the dealer where the other drain is at. If you get deer in the headlights look, you can bet it wasn't changed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll repeat. Ford.com customer service # says A) An engine flush also effects the motor/electronics component coolant as well. and B) the fluid from both systems intermix.

 

If this is correct, there is no reason to ever drain the motor/electronics component coolant separately after an engine flush.

 

Are you saying Ford.com is lying or uninformed?

 

It is all very confusing, because under the hood is one radiator cap, but two coolant reservoirs. (manual list two separate coolant capacities - 9.3 quarts engine coolant and 2.8 motor electronics coolant). All local dealers tell me the systems are separate and don't intermix fluid. If you have a drawing or schematic of both systems, it will clear things up for me.

[Easy Rider]

 

Are you saying Ford.com is lying or uninformed?

 

 

It would be REAL easy for me to say that......mis-informed maybe.....because the people who answer those phones know ONLY what is in the limited reference books that they are given. They are people manning a phone bank; they are not experts on anything.

 

NOW you have to be careful to ask the right question AND to quote back the exact answer.

They might not be answering the question that you asked.......but just reading to you the closest match in their database.

 

It is highly possible that the standard "coolant change procedure" (or flush) in the Ford mechanics workbook.......calls for them to change BOTH.

That wouldn't necessarily mean that both really NEEDS to be changed; it might just be a matter of expediency.

And it wouldn't necessarily mean that the two "loops" are really connected either.

 

There is no "radiator" cap on the smaller system for the electrics because it doesn't need extra pressure to keep from boiling.

 

Several people here have given you the "real scoop". Why aren't you buying it ??

It even matches what the local dealers are telling you.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Easy Rider

[pjc]

New member here. Greatly appreciate the help provided by forums like this.

 

I'm preparing to do a coolant change on my daughter's 2012 Fusion Hybrid. As far as she knows it's never been done before. She's not the original owner, but she has owned it since before 100K miles, which is the recommended change point. We're now at 128K. The coolant is not exactly dirty and has no signs of oil contamination, but it's cloudy enough to confirm that it hasn't been changed in a long time, if ever.

 

I've read the discussion above, but it doesn't tell me how to completely drain the two systems (engine; motor/electronics), or indeed, whether the two systems are, in fact, connected. Is the radiator petcock the only drain point, or is there a second drain for the motor/electronics system (and if so, where)? Even if the two systems are in some way connected, logically there must be a valve that separates them some of the time since they operate at different temperatures and pressures. Of course, such a valve would probably be open at cold temperatures, which would allow a single drain point.

 

Knowledge is power, and I want to be a Marvel superhero before I start the job.

 

pjc

[billford]

2012 Engine coolant change:

worksho1.pdf

 

2012 Motor electronics coolant change

worksho.pdf

 

Both are from the service manual. I don't have a 2012 so I cant comment on how difficult the procedures are.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by billford

[pjc]

Thanks, billford, very helpful.

 

Reading those procedures, it certainly seems the two coolant systems are independent. I'll report back after I do the work in a week or two.

[Instrumental]

I was looking to do the job, but the PDF files won't open for me, says they're damaged.  Anyone else have luck?

[mwr]

22 hours ago, Instrumental said:

I was looking to do the job, but the PDF files won't open for me, says they're damaged.  Anyone else have luck?

I downloaded the PDF files and the file size is 0 KB, so obviously that won't work. Somewhere along the line they got corrupted.

Edited February 2, 2020 by mwr

[billford]

I guess when the forum changed the files were lost for the 2012 Fusion Hybrid coolant replacement.

 

Here they are again. ...I tried it and they work.

 

In the past, I have uploaded a lot of info to this fusion forum. I haven't checked but I guess they are all lost also...

 

Let me know if you need more info...

 

2012 Fusion Hybrid Coolant Drain, Fill, Bleed.pdf Motor Electronics Drain and Fill.pdf

Edited February 7, 2020 by billford

[Instrumental]

This batch worked for me, thank you!

[bmatt]

I have a 2013 cmax hybrid and am looking for confirmation that the engine coolant (the pre-diluted recommended coolant) and the inverter coolant are the same fluid (it seems that way in the owners manual but not its not completely explicit).  I think its the same as the "motor electronics fluid" referred to in this thread. 

[billford]

12 hours ago, bmatt said:

I have a 2013 cmax hybrid and am looking for confirmation that the engine coolant (the pre-diluted recommended coolant) and the inverter coolant are the same fluid (it seems that way in the owners manual but not its not completely explicit).  I think its the same as the "motor electronics fluid" referred to in this thread. 

 

Both the engine and  motor electronics use orange coolant. 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by billford

[trzyha]

Test

Edited March 17, 2020 by trzyha

[Hpsportsfanatic]

I’m stuck on draining and refilling the inverter for a 2014 Ford Fusion hybrid.  The manual says nothing and the attachments won’t load above.  Any ideas how to do it? I’ve searched everywhere

[Hpsportsfanatic]

Just got quotes for 150-210 to do the inverter system.  That seems quite pricey...

[hytibill]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:14 PM, Hpsportsfanatic said:

Just got quotes for 150-210 to do the inverter system.  That seems quite pricey...

 

It is. The procedure for the inverter system is to remove the hose, drain the fluid by tipping the inverter coolant reservoir up 30 degrees, and filling it back up while burping it.

 

On 6/16/2020 at 10:30 AM, Hpsportsfanatic said:

I’m stuck on draining and refilling the inverter for a 2014 Ford Fusion hybrid.  The manual says nothing and the attachments won’t load above.  Any ideas how to do it? I’ve searched everywhere

 

The service manual is available on eBay for $12.99. I'll put the instructions here.

 

On 2/11/2020 at 1:15 AM, billford said:

 

Both the engine and  motor electronics use orange coolant. 

 

 

The orange coolant is now superseded by the yellow coolant, but the engine and the inverter cooling systems both use the same type of antifreeze according to the manual. Pictures of the appropriate pipe to drain from and the screws to remove from the inverter reservoir are below. System holds 1.1 quarts according to the manual. The steps are as follows:

 

1. Place transmission selector in park.

2. Start the vehicle by pressing the brake pedal and START button until the ready to drive indicator is illuminated. Note: The gas engine may or may not start. Confirm the SOBDMC / TCM coolant pump is running by feeling for vibration at the pump.

3. Watch for air bubbles in the coolant expansion tank for the SOBDMC / TCM . Add coolant to the coolant expansion tank if the level falls below the MIN mark. Bleeding is complete when bubbling stops.
   Material : Motorcraft® Orange Antifreeze/Coolant Prediluted / VC-3DIL-B (WSS-M97B44-D2)

4. Turn off ignition. Check and fill the coolant expansion tank until the coolant level is between the MIN and MAX marks.
   Material : Motorcraft® Orange Antifreeze/Coolant Prediluted / VC-3DIL-B (WSS-M97B44-D2)

5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 if necessary.

 

[billford]

19 hours ago, hytibill said:

 

It is. The procedure for the inverter system is to remove the hose, drain the fluid by tipping the inverter coolant reservoir up 30 degrees, and filling it back up while burping it.

 

 

The service manual is available on eBay for $12.99. I'll put the instructions here.

 

 

The orange coolant is now superseded by the yellow coolant, but the engine and the inverter cooling systems both use the same type of antifreeze according to the manual. Pictures of the appropriate pipe to drain from and the screws to remove from the inverter reservoir are below. System holds 1.1 quarts according to the manual. The steps are as follows:

 

1. Place transmission selector in park.

2. Start the vehicle by pressing the brake pedal and START button until the ready to drive indicator is illuminated. Note: The gas engine may or may not start. Confirm the SOBDMC / TCM coolant pump is running by feeling for vibration at the pump.

3. Watch for air bubbles in the coolant expansion tank for the SOBDMC / TCM . Add coolant to the coolant expansion tank if the level falls below the MIN mark. Bleeding is complete when bubbling stops.
   Material : Motorcraft® Orange Antifreeze/Coolant Prediluted / VC-3DIL-B (WSS-M97B44-D2)

4. Turn off ignition. Check and fill the coolant expansion tank until the coolant level is between the MIN and MAX marks.
   Material : Motorcraft® Orange Antifreeze/Coolant Prediluted / VC-3DIL-B (WSS-M97B44-D2)

5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 if necessary.

 

Your right, the orange coolant is being phased out and yellow coolant is being used for top ups and full fills. This started several months ago.