ptjones Report post Posted January 22, 2013 I finally was able to borrow new FFH and this is what I learned. Like the CMAX you gain about 3MPG with the Grill Covers. Water temp went from 177deg.F to 207deg.F right in the center of the operating temp for ICE(202-212 according to FORD). Outside temp was 35degF. I would like to do more testing but dealers don't want to put any miles on their cars. My test route on fwy was 14.4mi according to odometer but the GPS had 14.7mi which means you FFH owners are getting 2% better MPG's than you think you are. That could be as much as 1MPG. A step in the right direction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nmadole Report post Posted January 22, 2013 Please describe the contruction of the grill covers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 23, 2013 They are made of Polycarbonite plastic (Lexan). I used my cover from CMAX, they're the same except FFH is one inch longer and I taped it on. The lower grill cover I made from template so it fit and I taped it in place. I didn't get a chance to take a picture, but you can look at my gallery at: fordcmaxhybridforum.com I have pictures of CMAX covers and test documentation. I could send you these two covers to try out if you like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nmadole Report post Posted January 23, 2013 That is really interesting, would it interfer with the grill shutters?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 23, 2013 Grill covers are old school ways to increase FE in winter, started way back with the first Gen Prius, and does help. When and if I get a FFH that actually runs correctly, then I plan to spend the time to sit on a cold cement floor and make a cover, but for now just biding my time until the next check engine light comes on. If they dont fix it by the next visit, one more time and its LL time. I am an impatient person and this BS is driving me up the wall. A grill cover improves the effectiveness of the shutters since they dont fully cover the radiator. Just remember to take it off in the spring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 23, 2013 Grill covers are old school ways to increase FE in winter, started way back with the first Gen Prius, and does help. When and if I get a FFH that actually runs correctly, then I plan to spend the time to sit on a cold cement floor and make a cover, but for now just biding my time until the next check engine light comes on. If they dont fix it by the next visit, one more time and its LL time. I am an impatient person and this BS is driving me up the wall. A grill cover improves the effectiveness of the shutters since they dont fully cover the radiator. Just remember to take it off in the spring. I have separate grill cover for summer and it is good to have a ScanGaugeII although I'm trying to come u[p with cheap solution. My View has a temperature gauge that you can use with empower screen. I was wondering if Ford had an explanation for the plugs fouling? They should have been able to see if the problem was oil or gas. Seems like you could go to hotter plug. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 23, 2013 I have separate grill cover for summer and it is good to have a ScanGaugeII although I'm trying to come u[p with cheap solution. My View has a temperature gauge that you can use with empower screen. I was wondering if Ford had an explanation for the plugs fouling? They should have been able to see if the problem was oil or gas. Seems like you could go to hotter plug. If you notice, the center insulator is white, so not a plug problem, The electrode itself is very tiny, so fouling can quickly cover the tip itself and if you look close enough, granted the pic is not very clear, you can see it starting to foul at the base of the electrode. So far Ford has not even bothered with this. Just wait and see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 23, 2013 If you notice, the center insulator is white, so not a plug problem, The electrode itself is very tiny, so fouling can quickly cover the tip itself and if you look close enough, granted the pic is not very clear, you can see it starting to foul at the base of the electrode. So far Ford has not even bothered with this. Just wait and see. I didn't see the picture but maybe if they used plug with larger electrode might help the problem. I'm thinking there might be some CMAX owners with same problem. It looks like this problem has something to do with the cold weather. I'm not hearing bad things from owners in warm areas. Maybe oil pan pad heater and Grill Covers would not let the ICE get as cold and heat up the ICE quicker and elevating the problem. If enough owners complain there might be enough info to solve the problem. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Klstaack Report post Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) . Edited January 23, 2013 by Klstaack Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 24, 2013 Nixed the cold as an issue, I drove it in 78* weather and had poor MPG. Took a trip to Florida in it and only saw 38.8 max doing 60 MPH in the interstate. I also use a scan gauge on the car and it looks like it finished calibrating to the car. The MPG it shows is at least 2 MPG lower than what the car reports on the dash and is more in tune with actual MPG based on fuel used over miles driven. I have also been documenting fills, actual vs what the car reports. Tonight it showed 8.99, actual was 9.370. Thinking of logging each trip that is more than a few miles, SG vs Dash. 1 ptjones reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Nixed the cold as an issue, I drove it in 78* weather and had poor MPG. Took a trip to Florida in it and only saw 38.8 max doing 60 MPH in the interstate. I also use a scan gauge on the car and it looks like it finished calibrating to the car. The MPG it shows is at least 2 MPG lower than what the car reports on the dash and is more in tune with actual MPG based on fuel used over miles driven. I have also been documenting fills, actual vs what the car reports. Tonight it showed 8.99, actual was 9.370. Thinking of logging each trip that is more than a few miles, SG vs Dash.I only use ScanGauge for WT and use GPS for speed and odometer. SG is using info off ICE computer which is suspect. WT is real important for MPG's and that the ICE WT be 206deg.F+-3deg.F. What temps are you running vs outside temps? I usually get around 47mpg at 60mph depending on outside temp. Edited January 24, 2013 by ptjones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted January 24, 2013 Excellent point ! My 2010 FFH runs at 93º C. or 200º F. A cold running engine would burn a lot more fuel and might not show a DTC. My temperature gauge is always exactly in the middle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 24, 2013 Excellent point ! My 2010 FFH runs at 93º C. or 200º F. A cold running engine would burn a lot more fuel and might not show a DTC. My temperature gauge is always exactly in the middle.My WT gauge is in the middle from 180degF to over 216degF not real useful for MPG's. If you are curious it might be interesting to see what happens if you started blocking off your grill with clear packing tape to see if you could get ICE WT to 206degF. See if there is any improvement in MPG's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted January 24, 2013 The 2010 has a ten page Engineering Test Mode ( ETM ) that shows the temperature in º C. 1 ptjones reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 24, 2013 The 2010 has a ten page Engineering Test Mode ( ETM ) that shows the temperature in º C.That's great, what about the grill tape idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 24, 2013 At this point, not going to do anything that interferes with the normal operation of the car. If the car cant get decent MPG in warm weather, blocking it in cold wont make much difference. I can see it helping out my 10, especially this past week since its been in the single digits, except we aren't driving that car, it needs new tires, and already spent $429 on it to replace a bearing that got busted when I slid on ice and slammed into a curb, so tires will have to wait until hopefully next month, provided our taxes havent taken away too much more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 24, 2013 At this point, not going to do anything that interferes with the normal operation of the car. If the car cant get decent MPG in warm weather, blocking it in cold wont make much difference. I can see it helping out my 10, especially this past week since its been in the single digits, except we aren't driving that car, it needs new tires, and already spent $429 on it to replace a bearing that got busted when I slid on ice and slammed into a curb, so tires will have to wait until hopefully next month, provided our taxes havent taken away too much more. I know what you mean(taxes). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 25, 2013 I changed the display to show *fWT and the peak was 193*, and that was with the heater off doing 50 MPH. Majority of the time it was hovering around 180* with the heater on. I called the service manager to let him know that it seems to be running cold, which may be the reason for the soot. When I was sitting waiting for my wife, it never went above 157* at idle, and the heater was on floor low fan speed, barely doing anything to warm the cabin. Now here is something else I noticed, the trip in this morning, 3* tops, I got 34.1MPG, and the trip home, temps at 20*, 34.7 MPG, so a .6 MPG difference, which tells me nothing really. It also took a long time before temps got up to 170*, and will check in the morning how quickly the temp rises since its 55 MPH when I leave, and 25-35 on the return trip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted January 25, 2013 The thermometer icon on the 2010 turns green at about 140º F coolant temp. which only takes about three minutes at 70º F. outside temp. The heater fan doesn't start blowing in auto until somewhat below that. If you're running 150-190 you'd not notice any cabin temperature problem but that's definitely too cool for the ICE to run. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 25, 2013 This morning it peaked at 181*, and on average was around 160*. In this weather, it makes sense, but not when it was 78*. It may just be exacerbating the real issue, whatever it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 25, 2013 This morning it peaked at 181*, and on average was around 160*. In this weather, it makes sense, but not when it was 78*. It may just be exacerbating the real issue, whatever it is.It can't get higher because the cooling system works to good. That's why the grill covers work by limiting the amount of air flow. The thermostat is fully open at 202deg.F. Shutters start opening at 190deg.F and are fully open at 213deg.F. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 26, 2013 Whatever covers it has to be able to pass the collision avoidance and adaptive cruise signals through, or the car goes nuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 26, 2013 The C-Max doesn't have that. I wonder where the sensors are...maybe in the bumper? My wife has a new Explorer with adaptive cruise control so I might trying covering up the front grill and see if it works! or not!! Glad you mentioned this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted January 26, 2013 Its in the lower grill portion, or I should say, behind it. The parking sensors are in the bumper, so they wont be blocked, but the radar unit will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted January 26, 2013 Its in the lower grill portion, or I should say, behind it. The parking sensors are in the bumper, so they wont be blocked, but the radar unit will be.Radar goes through plastic, sound waves don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
