There might be an FFH in my future -- or not

[AptosDriver]

To everyone who responded to my initial post, "A FFH in my future?", thanks for all your "input." It has been very helpful. I appreciate how much everybody seems to like their cars. But, after browsing other topics in this forum, my jury is still out on the FFH. My primary concern is that the FFH's technology -- Ford's sophisticated, proprietary software that drives the instrumentation and controls the ICE and electric motor -- has not yet been adequately tested in real-world driving. I've seen too many posts from owners who've had problems with "bugs" in this system, and who've had to make multiple trips to Ford dealer service departments before the "technicians" were able to resolve their issues -- if they were able to. The problem, as I see it, is that Ford only manufactured and sold some 25,000-30,000 FFHs in the car's first model year, 2010, which means that individual Ford dealers didn't sell very many, and their service departments still haven't seen very many, don't have much experience yet with the problems that inevitably arise with most new car models, and despite whatever special training they may have received, or service bulletins that may have been issued, aren't able to quickly diagnose these problems and fix them.

 

The FFH is now going into its second model year. I hope Ford plans to manufacture and sell many more of them in 2011. To me that means that the FFH is still in its "early adoption" phase. When it comes to cars, I'm pretty risk-averse and don't want to be an early adopter. I'd like to see a couple hundred thousand FFHs on the road and have some confidence that the "bugs" have been worked out of this car before I buy one. So my hat's off to all you folks who've been the first or second on your blocks to own an FFH. :drool: That hybrid logo on the rear of your vehicles is a true badge of courage in my book. Me, I'll watch this forum and wait until 2012 to make a decision on this car ... or maybe 2013 ... or maybe ... :headscratch:

[akirby]

To everyone who responded to my initial post, "A FFH in my future?", thanks for all your "input." It has been very helpful. I appreciate how much everybody seems to like their cars. But, after browsing other topics in this forum, my jury is still out on the FFH. My primary concern is that the FFH's technology -- Ford's sophisticated, proprietary software that drives the instrumentation and controls the ICE and electric motor -- has not yet been adequately tested in real-world driving. I've seen too many posts from owners who've had problems with "bugs" in this system, and who've had to make multiple trips to Ford dealer service departments before the "technicians" were able to resolve their issues -- if they were able to. The problem, as I see it, is that Ford only manufactured and sold some 25,000-30,000 FFHs in the car's first model year, 2010, which means that individual Ford dealers didn't sell very many, and their service departments still haven't seen very many, don't have much experience yet with the problems that inevitably arise with most new car models, and despite whatever special training they may have received, or service bulletins that may have been issued, aren't able to quickly diagnose these problems and fix them.

 

The FFH is now going into its second model year. I hope Ford plans to manufacture and sell many more of them in 2011. To me that means that the FFH is still in its "early adoption" phase. When it comes to cars, I'm pretty risk-averse and don't want to be an early adopter. I'd like to see a couple hundred thousand FFHs on the road and have some confidence that the "bugs" have been worked out of this car before I buy one. So my hat's off to all you folks who've been the first or second on your blocks to own an FFH. :drool: That hybrid logo on the rear of your vehicles is a true badge of courage in my book. Me, I'll watch this forum and wait until 2012 to make a decision on this car ... or maybe 2013 ... or maybe ... :headscratch:

 

Ford has been selling hybrids since 2005. The FFH version is only slightly different than the Escape version. Dealer awareness is a potential issue depending on your local dealer but I don't see any reason for concern on Ford's part.

[Grey]

20 months on a fully loaded FFH and ZERO problems - Nav, rear camera, SYNC, BLIS,etc.

[lolder]

Other than the Brake software update, I can only recall one major difficulty that was hard to solve on this forum and he reached a deal on a replacement vehicle. Almost all other posts have been about unfamiliarity with hybrid operation. Hybrids are not new and the drivetrain in the FFH is very similar to the Escape Hybrid and the Fusion chassis has a good reputation. Toyota started work in the early '90's and Ford was well into it by 2000. There's a Ford patent on hybrid ICE starting and stopping technology from 2002 ( http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6425365.pdf ). It's true that nothing tests a car like having tens of thousands in the hands of the public with the bell curve spread of ability but I think this is pretty mature for advanced technology. Other than the software, the concept of the eCVT hybrid is elegantly simple.

Edited December 27, 2010 by lolder

[rfruth]

I think the OP can cross being an early adopter off the list and you probably won't see a big jump in sales numbers unless gas hits $ 4+ at the pump in which case we'd have a lot more to worry about than the price of filling up (the hybrid is a feather in Ford's cap, not a big money maker)

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/27/5-gas-in-2010-ex-shell-pr_n_801739.html

[AptosDriver]

20 months on a fully loaded FFH and ZERO problems - Nav, rear camera, SYNC, BLIS,etc.

Great! I'd like to hear more testimonials like this. It's likely that while people who have had some problems with their cars have posted about them, the folks in this virtual community who've had no problems are less inclined to post -- good news in this case being no news. And then, of course, there are all the FFH owners who haven't gone looking for and haven't found this forum, because they haven't had any problems. So, I'll stipulate that I may be erring on the side of caution at this point.

[AptosDriver]

I think the OP can cross being an early adopter off the list and you probably won't see a big jump in sales numbers unless gas hits $ 4+ at the pump in which case we'd have a lot more to worry about than the price of filling up (the hybrid is a feather in Ford's cap, not a big money maker)

 

http://www.huffingto...r_n_801739.html

There is absolutely no question that gas prices are heading north. And it's not all about us, as in U.S. See Paul Krugman's column about commodity prices in today's New York Times. So my wife's next sedan will definitely be a hybrid, and for me, the FFH is still ahead of the Toyota Camry hybrid on first looks and test drives. I appreciate all the positive feedback about the FFH on this site.

 

As for when I might pull the trigger on the purchase of this car (or the TCH), it's not only a matter of gaining more confidence in the FFH's reliability; it also depends on when I am able to accumulate the cash for this car-buy, which will be entirely self-financed. :rolleyes: That's going to take most of 2011. So even if I were sure I wanted to jump into an FFH (or a Lincoln MKZ) today, I wouldn't. So I will wait for now, and continue to follow this forum.

[dogo88]

20 months on a fully loaded FFH and ZERO problems - Nav, rear camera, SYNC, BLIS,etc.

 

I've had mine since May 2009 with 17,751 miles, and absolutely no issues. Even the brake update was never and issue for me. The dealer did the update but I never noticed any difference.

 

Also the OP needs to remember people are more prone to complain than praise.

 

 

As an update to my post, I would like to point out that in the current issue of CR where they list cars owners most likely would buy again, the FFH come in at 89%. Granted this is a new car and the feel and excitement still is there, but I would like to point out that this car has been out for two years now. Given the number of issues, it's done very well.

 

 

Dan

Edited December 28, 2010 by dogo88

[AptosDriver]

I've had mine since May 2009 with 17,751 miles, and absolutely no issues. Even the brake update was never and issue for me. The dealer did the update but I never noticed any difference.

 

Also the OP needs to remember people are more prone to complain than praise.

 

 

As an update to my post, I would like to point out that in the current issue of CR where they list cars owners most likely would buy again, the FFH come in at 89%. Granted this is a new car and the feel and excitement still is there, but I would like to point out that this car has been out for two years now. Given the number of issues, it's done very well.

 

 

Dan

Dan, as the OP (original poster, I finally figured it out) I thank you for your comments. I really enjoy the discussions on this forum. I would love to receive periodic updates from FFH owners re. how their cars are performing. As I noted, I will be setting aside cash toward a new-car purchase throughout 2011, with the goal of accumulating $30,000 by the end of the third quarter or so. Then I'll be ready to buy a new car. :hysterical2: Meanwhile, I'll have to convince my wife, who'll be its primary driver, to willingly give up her '00 Volvo S70 GLT SE, which currently has about 113,000 miles on it and no serious issues, mechanical or otherwise, at the moment. :banghead: I'm much more interested in getting a new car -- a hybrid and only a hybrid -- for her than she is at this point.

 

As I said, I'm really impressed by the FFH. But I had a terrible experience back in '75, when -- overcome with new-car lust -- I traded in my '71 VW Super Beetle with only 58 K on the odometer for a new, carubrated '75 VW Rabbit. It was in its first model year and a total lemon. Some of the problems might have been unique to the car -- like, for instance, when on a visit to the in-laws in Huntington Beach, Calif. the car literally lost its reverse gear and I had to take it to a local VW dealer to get it repaired under warranty. But others, I'm convinced, were related to engine design and particularly to the carburetor. I won't go into those, except to say that by the next model year, VW had replaced carubetion in the Rabbits with fuel injection. So ever since when it comes to buying a new car, I have stayed away from cars that have only just recently been introduced. Once burned, always shy. :stop:

 

All that said, I will say again for emphasis that I really do like the FFH. And there could still most likely be one in our future, even if I have to drag the technophobe wife -- who still pines for a car with roll-down windows -- into it kicking and screaming. :rant:

[Fuze-ion]

I'm a happy owner. I have owned for (9) months with no issues. I have been unable to program one of those "Flip Keys", for the remote unlocking of doors and trunk, but I don't think it is the cars fault. I did have the key cut and was able to program it to start the car. The vehicle hasn't even been back to the dealer. It will go, for it's one-year anniversary, and our required yearly State Inspection. I change Oil & Filter and rotate tires at home.

[AptosDriver]

I'm a happy owner. I have owned for (9) months with no issues. I have been unable to program one of those "Flip Keys", for the remote unlocking of doors and trunk, but I don't think it is the cars fault. I did have the key cut and was able to program it to start the car. The vehicle hasn't even been back to the dealer. It will go, for it's one-year anniversary, and our required yearly State Inspection. I change Oil & Filter and rotate tires at home.

That's good news about your car. I did my own oil changes for many years, until it got more difficult to dispose of the old oil here (N. California). It used to be, you could take it to a gas station. Then they stopped taking it and I had to collect it and take it to a recycling center. That's too much hassle where I now live, so I just get our cars' oil changed at their respective shops.

[CometFlash]

I've owned 3 first year model Ford F-150's (1997, 2004 and currently 2009), no problems with any of them. And my fiance has a first year model Ford Edge, and she has had no problems either.

 

I'm considering picking up an FFH or MKZH; and I suppose you could consider the MKZH a first year model, but I'm not concerned in the slightest about that. The only thing that worries me is winter driving in a hybrid and the fact that the all-new 2013 FFH isn't that far away now. And of course, the F-150 gets a brand-new EcoBoost engine for 2011, and the all-new Ford Explorer just hit, and those things are gorgeous too. And then there's the all-new 2012 Focus hitting this spring. Ford really is the king of awesome vehicles right now, for sure. Decisions, decisions... :headspin:

[AptosDriver]

The only thing that worries me is winter driving in a hybrid and the fact that the all-new 2013 FFH isn't that far away now.

No winter concerns out here on the Left Coast, of course ... unless I "go to the snow" in the Sierra, as we Californians say.

 

As for waiting for the '13 model FFH's, what do you expect will be "all new" about them that they won't have for 2012?

[CometFlash]

No winter concerns out here on the Left Coast, of course ... unless I "go to the snow" in the Sierra, as we Californians say.

 

As for waiting for the '13 model FFH's, what do you expect will be "all new" about them that they won't have for 2012?

 

MyFord Touch for one. There are also rumors that Ford will go to their 3rd generation hybrid battery's that they are working on now, making it lighter and more fuel efficient. They may also fit under the hood, making the rear seatback foldable. Plus the car itself will be smaller, based on the European Mondeo platform, again helping to make it get better MPG. Of course, if smaller isn't your thing, than an '11 or '12 would be a better buy. That's really the only complaint I've heard about the Fiesta so far, that because it's so small it can feel cramped and be a bit much for taller/larger individuals. I imagine the 2013 would also have push button start and the new remote start system that operates your heated seats, rear defrost, etc. The MKZ version would most likely have heated steering wheel.

 

Of course, there is the mantra of, "If you always wait for the newest thing.... you'll be waiting forever, since there's always something newer and better right around the bend." At some point you gotta find what you like and buy it. My whole thing is trying to save lots of money so I can pay off my house I'm buying tomorrow as fast as possible. So do I really want to wait? I'm not sure. I still have a few months to decide, and the NAIAS is just a few weeks away; so we could hear some news & rumors once that hits as well.

 

EDIT: All-New means they are redesigning the vehicle from the ground up. New (as in 2011 or 2012) just means it's new with a few minor updates, but nothing major. Ford is trying to get into a 3-year cycle for most of it's vehicles; not that it always happens but it's something to keep in mind. 2010-2012 is the current model of the FFH, 2013 being all-new.

Edited December 29, 2010 by CometFlash

[AptosDriver]

MyFord Touch for one. There are also rumors that Ford will go to their 3rd generation hybrid battery's that they are working on now, making it lighter and more fuel efficient. They may also fit under the hood, making the rear seatback foldable. Plus the car itself will be smaller, based on the European Mondeo platform, again helping to make it get better MPG. Of course, if smaller isn't your thing, than an '11 or '12 would be a better buy.

I like the idea of a smaller battery under the hood coupled with a folding rear seat and a larger trunk, but not if the trunk is in a smaller car. I like the size of the FFH as it is. If I wanted a smaller car, I would buy a Prius. So I'm more likely to go for an '11 or a '12 model. As for MyFord Touch, I just scanned a review of it and it seems to me that the last thing drivers need these days is more things to play with in their cars. The current Ford Sync is very nice and it's more than enough technology for me -- and way too much for my wife, the prospective FFH's primary driver; which is why I'll have a devil of a time getting her into this car if and when I buy it. :poke:

[mirak]

I would rely more on Consumer Reports' reliability ratings than I would on canvassing a message board. I think CR bases its ratings on subscriber surveys (I know I've received two of them so far), and I would expect CR has surveyed at least several hundred FFH owners by now. The ratings are excellent. Plus, the FFH tops the "I would buy it again" list. You're now into the second model year with a 2011, so I wouldn't worry about being an "early adopter."

 

The only thing I might wait for is to see what additional features will be on the 2012 model. At that point, you can either decide to wait for a 2012, or maybe get a better deal on an outgoing 2011.

[AptosDriver]

I would rely more on Consumer Reports' reliability ratings than I would on canvassing a message board. I think CR bases its ratings on subscriber surveys (I know I've received two of them so far), and I would expect CR has surveyed at least several hundred FFH owners by now. The ratings are excellent.

Consumer Reports is my "bible." I subscribe to both CR's hard-copy magazine and the online service, plus CR's online car-rating and pricing service. And I know that CR thinks highly of this car, which is why I'm considering it at all, given a longstanding prejudice against domestic cars. (We've only owned one, a '96 or '97 -- I forget now -- Chevy Cavalier that we bought from Avis in L.A. with 26,000 miles on the odometer for about $11,000. It actually turned out to be a reliable car. My wife, who was commuting between Santa Cruz and L.A. at the time, put a lot of miles on it. I think it was up to 167,000 miles when we unloaded it in 2001 -- with no serious problems along the way.)

 

My problem with CR's extraordinarily high reliability rating for the FFH, is that at this point, it's still a "predicted" rating. That's a significant caveat for me, and the major reason why I'm waiting to see if CR's prediction holds up as more FFH's hit the road and the miles pile up. Then I'll also be able to see what percentage of FFH buyers would buy the FFH again.

 

In the meantime, monitoring this site and seeing what people are posting about their cars is the best I can do in the way of due diligence. I also plan to visit a local Ford dealer to talk to their service manager. I'd like to hear directly from him or her re. how many FFH's they've serviced and what kinds of issues have cropped up.

[awilson]

We have had our FFH since May 2009 and have logged 57,000 miles (we drive a lot!!!). The only problem to report is with the fuel filler door - which is not related to the Hybrid system as it is identical to the fuel filler door on the standard Fusions. This is the first Ford that I have ever owned, with recent cars being manufactured by Honda, Toyota and Mercedes Benz.

 

I second the sentiment that has been echoed by many here that the FFH is the finest car that I have ever owned. I am so sold on the vehicle that I have sold the Honda Pilot that I drive and have picked out a new 2010 FFH that I will purchase later this week so that I do not have to keep asking to borrow my wife's FFH.

 

Ford is offering a $2K rebate on 2010 FFH which is why I decided to get a 2010 rather than a 2011. I live in West Texas and found several 2010's to select from.

[AptosDriver]

We have had our FFH since May 2009 and have logged 57,000 miles (we drive a lot!!!). The only problem to report is with the fuel filler door - which is not related to the Hybrid system as it is identical to the fuel filler door on the standard Fusions. This is the first Ford that I have ever owned, with recent cars being manufactured by Honda, Toyota and Mercedes Benz.

 

I second the sentiment that has been echoed by many here that the FFH is the finest car that I have ever owned. I am so sold on the vehicle that I have sold the Honda Pilot that I drive and have picked out a new 2010 FFH that I will purchase later this week so that I do not have to keep asking to borrow my wife's FFH.

 

Ford is offering a $2K rebate on 2010 FFH which is why I decided to get a 2010 rather than a 2011. I live in West Texas and found several 2010's to select from.

That is a lot of miles in less than two years, and a powerful testimonial. I will definitely take it under serious advisement. I spotted a '10 FFH here today as the driver was coming into a shopping center parking lot -- just as I was leaving. So I turned around, parked my RAV4 again and chased after her into PetSmart, and asked her about her car. She said they'd put 20,000 trouble-free miles on it in the first year. It's looking more and more like there will be an FFH in our future. But first I'll have to get my wife on board, because she'll be the car's primary driver and she's reluctant to give up her '00 Volvo S70 GLT (with 113,000 miles and counting).

[jeff_h]

That is a lot of miles in less than two years, and a powerful testimonial. I will definitely take it under serious advisement. I spotted a '10 FFH here today as the driver was coming into a shopping center parking lot -- just as I was leaving. So I turned around, parked my RAV4 again and chased after her into PetSmart, and asked her about her car. She said they'd put 20,000 trouble-free miles on it in the first year. It's looking more and more like there will be an FFH in our future. But first I'll have to get my wife on board, because she'll be the car's primary driver and she's reluctant to give up her '00 Volvo S70 GLT (with 113,000 miles and counting).

 

I second that -- purchased in July 2009 and now have 61,000 miles, no problems.

Edited December 30, 2010 by jeff_h

[AptosDriver]

I second that -- purchased in July 2009 and now have 61,000 miles, no problems.

WOW! :headspin:

[rfruth]

anyone had an alignment done yet, 2 or 4 wheel ?

 

signed just trying to plan ahead