A/C Not Working

[isritter]

Alright... so let me walk you guys through my troubles.

 

My A/C stopped working a few years ago in my '06 Fusion SE. Determined to not have to go through a blistering summer, I paid someone almost $1,100 to fix the problem. He said it was the air compressor and that the dealership would not sell individual parts, that he had to purchase the clutch, coil and compressor all together - which ran around $500 - parts alone.

 

When I got the car back, it cooled better but not to the point that it had before things went south. My wife swears that it never got any better.

 

I called the mechanic and they said they'd "take a look at it" but I needed to bring in my paperwork. I cannot find my paperwork, only a bank statement that shows I paid them $1,100.

 

So, I've checked a few other things.

 

I did a pressure test on the low port and it has sufficient refrigerant.

 

Because of this, I figured it might be the ambient temperature sensor as I know that this is a known issue in a lot of Fusion's so I spent the past two evenings as well as this morning disassembling the dash, replacing the sensor and putting the car back together.

 

After replacing the sensor, it still does not blow cold air.

 

When I look down at the compressor, the belt is moving but it doesn't seem like the compressor is spinning - shouldn't it be?

 

What else to do? Any light you guys can shed is much appreciated.

 

Signed,

 

Confused, Frustrated and not looking forward to the summer!

[isritter]

No takers?

[bbf2530]

Alright... so let me walk you guys through my troubles.

 

My A/C stopped working a few years ago in my '06 Fusion SE. Determined to not have to go through a blistering summer, I paid someone almost $1,100 to fix the problem. He said it was the air compressor and that the dealership would not sell individual parts, that he had to purchase the clutch, coil and compressor all together - which ran around $500 - parts alone.

 

When I got the car back, it cooled better but not to the point that it had before things went south. My wife swears that it never got any better.

 

I called the mechanic and they said they'd "take a look at it" but I needed to bring in my paperwork. I cannot find my paperwork, only a bank statement that shows I paid them $1,100.

 

So, I've checked a few other things.

 

I did a pressure test on the low port and it has sufficient refrigerant.

 

Because of this, I figured it might be the ambient temperature sensor as I know that this is a known issue in a lot of Fusion's so I spent the past two evenings as well as this morning disassembling the dash, replacing the sensor and putting the car back together.

 

After replacing the sensor, it still does not blow cold air.

 

When I look down at the compressor, the belt is moving but it doesn't seem like the compressor is spinning - shouldn't it be?

 

What else to do? Any light you guys can shed is much appreciated.

 

Signed,

 

Confused, Frustrated and not looking forward to the summer!

 

Hi isritter. :D I figured I would reply so you know you are not being ignored. Unfortunately, this is one of those issues that just can not be accurately diagnosed over the Internet.

 

Concerning your question about the compressor and whether the belt is moving and the compressor spinning: If the belt is moving, generally the compressor pulley should be spinning. Otherwise, there would be one heck of a screech/noise. But not being there makes any sort of accurate diagnosis difficult at best, which possibly leads to why some people have not previously replied.

 

Sometimes, it is simply better to take the car to Ford Dealer or an Air Conditioning specialist (one who does not tell you that he can't obtain individual parts from Ford, or that you need to bring in your "paperwork" before he will look at it again). You have now paid a "mechanic" $1,100 to do work which did not correct the problem, and somehow he can not remember doing the work and will need you to bring in your "paperwork" for him to "take a look at it". I guess they conveniently do not keep their own records. Then you spent about two days disassembling the dashboard to replace a sensor that did not correct the problem either.

 

For any of us to tell you "do this", "check that", "replace this" etc. would just be sending you on more wild-goose chases. Someone may guess right, but it will only be a lucky guess. You will most likely wind up wasting more time and money by throwing more parts at the problem while getting warmer as the summer approaches.

 

At this point, you either need to take the car back to the first mechanic and convince them to correct their work (which seems to have never helped in the first place), or just go to a Ford/Lincoln-Mercury Dealer and have the problem diagnosed and repaired correctly. Or find a reliable shop that specializes in HVAC repairs.

 

Sorry I can not help more, but for what it is worth, that would be my best advice.

 

Let us know how you make out.

 

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. :beerchug:

Edited May 3, 2010 by bbf2530

[danager]

The belt and pulley are spinning and not squealing because either the compressor is turning, or the clutch is not engaging. Start the car, leave all climate controls off - look and listen to the compressor. Then have somebody inside turn on the AC or defrost - you should hear a click (the clutch engaging the compressor). If there is no call for AC, it will immediately disengage - again, you should hear a click.

 

I would then move on to testing with a thermometer and the system set to recirculate. You can pick up a vent temperature thermometer at most auto parts stores for a few bucks (an inexpensive one will do the trick if you are only going to use it a few times). The AC system is reliant on air passing through the fins on the condenser to cool down the refrigerant. To simulate this cooling effect, spray down the radiator and condenser with water.

 

The issue could be with the programmer - which is often integrated into the climate controls of automatic system, or an issue with the blend door/blend door actuator.

 

You are getting past what most DIY people are able to test and repair. Most repair shops have regular mechanics diagnose and repair the components, and the AC mechanic recovers/recharges the system.

I would try a different shop than you visited in the past. Going on a cool day isn't going to help, as the system may test properly. As for the compressor, while I am no Ford parts guy, having repaired AC for a while - a compressor with the clutch and coil assy is not a bad idea. I would always condone using genuine parts as opposed to a jobber pump.

 

Good Luck!

Dan

[isritter]

The belt and pulley are spinning and not squealing because either the compressor is turning, or the clutch is not engaging. Start the car, leave all climate controls off - look and listen to the compressor. Then have somebody inside turn on the AC or defrost - you should hear a click (the clutch engaging the compressor). If there is no call for AC, it will immediately disengage - again, you should hear a click.

 

I would then move on to testing with a thermometer and the system set to recirculate. You can pick up a vent temperature thermometer at most auto parts stores for a few bucks (an inexpensive one will do the trick if you are only going to use it a few times). The AC system is reliant on air passing through the fins on the condenser to cool down the refrigerant. To simulate this cooling effect, spray down the radiator and condenser with water.

 

The issue could be with the programmer - which is often integrated into the climate controls of automatic system, or an issue with the blend door/blend door actuator.

 

You are getting past what most DIY people are able to test and repair. Most repair shops have regular mechanics diagnose and repair the components, and the AC mechanic recovers/recharges the system.

I would try a different shop than you visited in the past. Going on a cool day isn't going to help, as the system may test properly. As for the compressor, while I am no Ford parts guy, having repaired AC for a while - a compressor with the clutch and coil assy is not a bad idea. I would always condone using genuine parts as opposed to a jobber pump.

 

Good Luck!

Dan

 

Thanks and thanks to the both of you for replies. I returned to the mechanic today and they're willing to "take a look at it tomorrow" so hopefully they're willing to make right on the deal. In the meantime, I fired it up this evening to see what was going on under the hood.

 

When the car is on, with all settings turned off, the belt turns the pulley on the compressor. When I turn defrost on, there is no "click." When I turn the A/C on, there is no "click."

 

I'll take it to the mechanic to see what they diagnose and possibly run the vent test afterwards to see what happens. Not sure if this is of note or if this is a symptom of a deeper problem, but the radiator fan does not kick on either.

 

A few other questions.

 

1) Would an issue with the programmer or door actuator show up on an OBD scan or would the car give me an error on the instrument cluster?

2) What is the likelihood that, although the low port shows that there is sufficient R134 in the system, there isn't enough refrigerant in there?

 

Thanks again for the replies. At this point, I'm pretty sure any repairs are beyond my expertise but I'd just like to know.

[danager]

Hi again,

 

1) Usually the control head will display an error if either are not functioning properly. I am not very familiar with troubleshooting the new Ford products, in most cars, the AC light will flash and turn off.

 

2) Refrigerant goes in by volume that is weighed, not based on pressure. There are min/max pressures for the low side and high side, they are not very reliable figures to diagnose anything with.

[xmech2k]

If the compressor won't kick on, it doesn't matter how much refirdgerant there is, unless there is some sensors I'm not aware of that sense the quantity or pressure as a safety to keep from destroying the compressor.

[isritter]

Not a mechanic by any stretch but I'm pretty sure that if there's a low or zero amount of refrigerant in the system, the clutch will not engage and the compressor will not kick on as a means of protecting the compressor. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The only reason I was asking that question is because a test on the low-side port tells me that I have a sufficient amount of refrigerant but the clutch still does not engage.

 

I've also heard that if there's too much refrigerant (i.e. overcharge), the compressor will not fire up.

 

I could be wrong though.

[akirby]

Not a mechanic by any stretch but I'm pretty sure that if there's a low or zero amount of refrigerant in the system, the clutch will not engage and the compressor will not kick on as a means of protecting the compressor. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Absolutely 100% correct.

[isritter]

Just got a call back from the shop that did the initial repair and he told me I have a leak in the high port hose.

 

Want $300 to repair the hose.

 

We went back and forth as I told him that the A/C hasn't worked since I got it and if it was leaking, they should have detected it back then. Of course, I didn't take it back in "immediately" thus, the conversation fell on deaf ears.

 

Any idea how difficult replacing the hose is and if it must be handled by an HVAC repair center?

 

What to do?

[danager]

Replacing the hose is not difficult, however it is easier to do it incorrectly (like so many things). The refrigerant will need to be recovered and the system recharged after the repair. Yes, an AC tech would be needed. Just to be clear, they are replacing the hose for $300 right (not repairing the hose)? that is about right for that repair, factoring in the cost of the replacement hose, labour to R&R, and the recharge. The recharge is the part they should be doing at no charge. The line would have always needed replacing so you would have incurred that plus the labour the first time around.

 

Good luck!

[isritter]

Replacing the hose is not difficult, however it is easier to do it incorrectly (like so many things). The refrigerant will need to be recovered and the system recharged after the repair. Yes, an AC tech would be needed. Just to be clear, they are replacing the hose for $300 right (not repairing the hose)? that is about right for that repair, factoring in the cost of the replacement hose, labour to R&R, and the recharge. The recharge is the part they should be doing at no charge. The line would have always needed replacing so you would have incurred that plus the labour the first time around.

 

Good luck!

 

Yes, they want $300 for P & L on the hose alone, he was "doing me a favor" by not charging me for the vacuum and recharge.

 

In all honesty, the problem that I have with forking out another $300 with this guy is the fact that THIS was a) either the problem with my system in the first place and the issue was misdiagnosed or B) something that was done ex post facto by one of their technicians when putting the system back together.

 

I tried to explain to him that it blew cold(er) after I took it home, just not very cold, and eventually it was just blowing hot again. I'm convinced it's because of that leak.

 

If I was going to have to shell out another $150 for the hose, I was willing to do that as a compromise. I felt like they, at the very least, should have been willing to install and vacuum it at no cost since it had to be their mistake to begin with.

 

I'm not even sure if my compressor was actually out the first time. The car is still doing the same thing now that it was doing when my old compressor was in it.

 

If installing the hose isn't difficult, I can do that and then take the vehicle to an HVAC place for a vacuum and recharge.

 

Any pointers on the hose install are much appreciated.

[isritter]

So here's (hopefully) the final question.

 

The hose I'm replacing is Part Number YF3219, the rubber hose that runs from the condenser to the compressor.

 

The repair center filled the system up with R134 and when I picked it up, it blew some C-O-L-D air, it was nice to have it back. Since it's still leaking, I need to fix that hose.

 

Is there anything that I need to do prior to removing the leaky hose and reinstalling the other one since they recharged the system. Should I wait for the AC to start blowing hot again (knowing that the refrigerant has leaked out) or can I remove / replace the hose okay?

 

Once I replace the hose, I'm going to take it to an HVAC specialist for a vacuum and recharge. Does this sound correct?

Edited May 5, 2010 by isritter

[akirby]

So here's (hopefully) the final question.

 

The hose I'm replacing is Part Number YF3219, the rubber hose that runs from the condenser to the compressor.

 

The repair center filled the system up with R134 and when I picked it up, it blew some C-O-L-D air, it was nice to have it back. Since it's still leaking, I need to fix that hose.

 

Is there anything that I need to do prior to removing the leaky hose and reinstalling the other one since they recharged the system. Should I wait for the AC to start blowing hot again (knowing that the refrigerant has leaked out) or can I remove / replace the hose okay?

 

Once I replace the hose, I'm going to take it to an HVAC specialist for a vacuum and recharge. Does this sound correct?

 

I don't think you can replace the hose without losing refrigerant and that's a no-no. What you should do is have the refrigerant removed, then change the hose and have it recharged. In which case you might as well just wait until it leaks down again unless you just want to be nice to the environment.

[danager]

You know, after needing to have it vacuumed down, then buying a couple tools to remove the line (snap ring tools), needing a couple o-rings, and then dealing with them telling you they will not guarantee anything because you opened the system - may not be worth it. What is the labour charge?

 

The tricky part with AC, a slow leak allows the system to work for one season (usually), and then you pay again the following year.