Battery

[rgevans871]

What is the life expectancy of the hybrid battery? What is it's replacement cost, including change out labor? Does the battery warranty prorate the replacement cost of the battery depending on it's age as most conventional battery warranties do or is it a full replacement cost up to the expiration date of the warranty? I'm a prospective buyer trying to do a life cycle economic assessment of the cost of owning a Fusion Hybrid for a period of 10 to 12 years with 120,000 to 150,000 mile. I'm anticipating that I'll need to replace the battery sometime during this period. My local Ford Dealer has not been helpful in answering these questions.

 

Ron.

[bbf2530]

What is the life expectancy of the hybrid battery? What is it's replacement cost, including change out labor? Does the battery warranty prorate the replacement cost of the battery depending on it's age as most conventional battery warranties do or is it a full replacement cost up to the expiration date of the warranty? I'm a prospective buyer trying to do a life cycle economic assessment of the cost of owning a Fusion Hybrid for a period of 10 to 12 years with 120,000 to 150,000 mile. I'm anticipating that I'll need to replace the battery sometime during this period. My local Ford Dealer has not been helpful in answering these questions.

 

Ron.

 

Hi Ron. :D I will answer what I can: No prorate on the Hybrid battery during the Warranty period.

 

Just to be clear: The factory installed battery in a conventional Ford/Mercury is not prorated during the Warranty period. Only after-Warranty replacement batteries are prorated.

 

In the same way as the above described factory-installed conventional battery, the Hybrid battery is not prorated for the full Hybrid Battery Warranty period.

 

Life expectancy? Do not quote me on this, but I recall having read that the life expectancy generally mirrors the Hybrid Battery Warranty. Over 100,000 miles.

 

Change out cost? Not sure now. And impossible to say five or more years down the road. With improvement in technology and production, the battery costs will likely decrease. Of course, labor costs will increase. So who can predict?

 

Sorry I could not be of more help.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited December 10, 2009 by bbf2530

[Oman]

The hybrid components are non-prorated. In CA they are covered to 15 years / 150K miles. Elsewhere 8/100K miles.

 

The expected lifetime of the HVB is > 150K miles.

 

Costs will likely vary considerably over time. Labor isn't too bad but you might have to deal with a recycling charge. It could be more or less than today based on supply / demand / # of suppliers, etc.

 

 

 

Jon

 

 

Hi Ron. :D I will answer what I can: No prorate on the Hybrid battery during the Warranty period.

 

Just to be clear: The factory installed battery in a conventional Ford/Mercury is not prorated during the Warranty period. Only after-Warranty replacement batteries are prorated.

 

In the same way as the above described factory-installed conventional battery, the Hybrid battery is not prorated for the full Hybrid Battery Warranty period.

 

Life expectancy? Do not quote me on this, but I recall having read that the lie expectancy generally mirrors the Hybrid Battery Warranty. Over 100,000 miles.

 

Change out cost? Not sure now. And impossible to say five or more years down the road. With improvement in technology and production, the battery costs will likely decrease. Of course, labor costs will increase. So who can predict?

 

Sorry I could not be of more help.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[Grey]

The Ford Escape Hybrid batteries have lasted more than 250,000 miles in NY taxi service. Our battery packs are made up of sleaves of "D" cell size batterys (to get to 275 volts.) As with the older hybrids out there, there will be lots of battery "remanufacturers" out there by the time we are out of warranty. They will be able to remove, test, replace bad cells in the packs for a fraction of the cost of new. We have heard of some owners (with electrical skills) doing this themselves on Hondsa and Toyotas.

 

So- to factor in a "Cost of Ownership" factor for the battery pack ----assume a 20% chance you might have to spend $1,200 for a recycled battery pack at 150,000 to 250,000 miles. That would include the labor. This battery pack should have at least a 75% life expectancy (vs. new).

[fsb99]

The hybrid components are non-prorated. In CA they are covered to 15 years / 150K miles. Elsewhere 8/100K miles.

 

 

Jon

 

Close...CA warranty is 10 yrs/150k.

[lolder]

The owners manual says it is good for the life of the car (??). Prius replacements are about $3000 new to $400-800 used. Any cost study is a wild guess considering fuel cost variability. It's a fun car.

 

Lee

[VonoreTn]

There are reports of failed Prius batteries which are often nothing more than corroded connectors. But of course, the dealers aren't trained to get inside the battery packs and replace corroded connnectors, nor is the customer or aftermarket encouraged to do the same, given the risk of an amateur fix-it guy frying himself with the 275 volts. Pruis replacement battery packs cost from $4K to $8K, depending on the story you are reading. Here are some Prius battery stories...:

 

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

 

I think the truth is nobody really knows what the service situation will be in 8 years, so it is all speculation, but I'm betting I will not have to pay more than $1K per 100K miles for batteries, since I will likely figure out a way to just replace the bad cells or connectors, if service is needed at all. I'm not the kind of guy who takes his car to a dealer and says fix everything, damn the cost. There will be forums explaining how to do it in that time frame.

 

So I'm expecting to pay a $10 battery premium per 1000 miles for owning a hybrid, I think I will still come out ahead. At current prices ($2.40/gallon) that would mean I'm effectively only getting 34.3 mpg, versus th 40 mpg I am really getting, if I had no battery costs to worry about. Try to find and sedan as nice as a loaded Fusion that averages 34.3 mpg. If you follow the math, that last number improves, as the price of gas goes up.

 

All speculation, granted, but the long term cost of batteries is not in my top 40 concerns.

[Oman]

I missed the part that says:

 

**** Except for the high voltage battery, which is covered for 10 years or 150,000 miles (whichever comes first)

 

yes, that's four asterisks. I guess I stopped at three asterisks :>

 

Jon

 

 

 

Close...CA warranty is 10 yrs/150k.

[lolder]

Toyota claims an out of warranty battery failure rate of .003% for generation II cars. Generation I were only sold in Japan and have a 1% failure rate. Many gen II's are still in warranty so the sample is still small but the trend is encouraging. If the rate turns out to be as small as that, the manufacturers would be smart to extend the battery warranty to 15/200,000 as a PR move to completely rule out that worry. But they don't do that for engines which last that long.

Lee

[Zacher]

I find it strange that there are different warranties based on State in the US.

 

However in Canada here are the warranties, and I was dictated this at dealer as well: *taken directly from www.ford.ca

 

Basic Warranty: 36 months / 60 000km

PowerTrain Warranty: 60 months / 100 000km

Corrosion perforation warranty: 60 months / unlimited distance

Roadside Assistance: 60 months / 100 000km

Accessories Warranty: 36 months / 60 000km

Hybrid electrical components warranty: 96 months / 160 000km

[rgevans871]

There are reports of failed Prius batteries which are often nothing more than corroded connectors. But of course, the dealers aren't trained to get inside the battery packs and replace corroded connnectors, nor is the customer or aftermarket encouraged to do the same, given the risk of an amateur fix-it guy frying himself with the 275 volts. Pruis replacement battery packs cost from $4K to $8K, depending on the story you are reading. Here are some Prius battery stories...:

 

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

 

I think the truth is nobody really knows what the service situation will be in 8 years, so it is all speculation, but I'm betting I will not have to pay more than $1K per 100K miles for batteries, since I will likely figure out a way to just replace the bad cells or connectors, if service is needed at all. I'm not the kind of guy who takes his car to a dealer and says fix everything, damn the cost. There will be forums explaining how to do it in that time frame.

 

So I'm expecting to pay a $10 battery premium per 1000 miles for owning a hybrid, I think I will still come out ahead. At current prices ($2.40/gallon) that would mean I'm effectively only getting 34.3 mpg, versus th 40 mpg I am really getting, if I had no battery costs to worry about. Try to find and sedan as nice as a loaded Fusion that averages 34.3 mpg. If you follow the math, that last number improves, as the price of gas goes up.

 

All speculation, granted, but the long term cost of batteries is not in my top 40 concerns.

[rgevans871]

After reading many of the responses after the article at http://www.hybridcar...dden-costs.html, I'm wondering whether a hybrid is something I want to invest in. I asked the parts guy at our local Ford Dealer the cost of the battery. He looked it up and quoted me $8000 and then didn't include removal and replacement labor. A hybrid would look more attractive to someone that either leases or trades every 2 to 3 years. I'm not either of those cases. Thanks for your input and particularly the web site.

 

Ron.

[Oman]

Wow, 8K is way higher than what it listed at when I purchased my FFH. In any event I calculated the battery replacement cost after 8 years. I added up the gas savings at current (low) prices and then added a battery replacement cost factor based on my commute. I came out WAY ahead. I plan on keeping the car until it dies. Full coverage for the battery for 8 years (non CA). What math are you using?

 

Jon

 

 

After reading many of the responses after the article at http://www.hybridcar...dden-costs.html, I'm wondering whether a hybrid is something I want to invest in. I asked the parts guy at our local Ford Dealer the cost of the battery. He looked it up and quoted me $8000 and then didn't include removal and replacement labor. A hybrid would look more attractive to someone that either leases or trades every 2 to 3 years. I'm not either of those cases. Thanks for your input and particularly the web site.

 

Ron.

[lolder]

There are already battery repair companies. See: http://www.hybrid-battery-repair.com/hybrid.html. The FFH is not listed yet but our batteries will be in warranty for many more years. The accident rate (which is not high) is far larger than necessary to produce used/reconditioned batteries from wrecks to replace failed batteries. I think this will prove to be a non issue and I'm a pessimist at heart.

 

Lee

[akirby]

I find it strange that there are different warranties based on State in the US.

 

Not strange at all. It's a California thing.

[acdii]

Generation I were only sold in Japan and have a 1% failure rate.

 

Not true, there are a lot of Gen I's around by me, I see them all the time. What's funny is before I bought a Prius, I never saw one, then once I had one, I saw them all over the place. The Gen one doesn't look anything like the Gen II, it looks like a bloated Corolla, it isn't until you see the name tag on the back that you realize its a Prius.

 

As far as battery cost, think of it the same as you would a transmission. How much is a transmission repair these days? 4-5K on most cars now, they use to be only about $800 to $2000 to replace, but now with all the electronics in them, they are far more expensive to replace. The Hybrid doesn't really have a transmission, its more like a series of electric motors tied together with a planetary gear set, failure rates on them so far have been very low. As long as they are maintained properly they will last the life of the car. When you consider how long electric motors last in other things, like your furnace at home for example, you get a good 10 to 15 years out of it.

 

The Traction batteries are computer controlled to prevent overcharging and undercharging, both of which kill batteries. With the proper cycling they get, they last a very long time, and as long as they remain clean, and cool, they should last the life of the car too. When you consider the number of Hybrids sold so far, going all the way back to at least 2002 with the first Prius model, there are a lot of battery packs out there, and had replacement been a big issue, we would have heard about it by now, you hear the occasional horror story from someone whose car ate 2 battery packs, but those are very rare.

[lolder]

You're right about the Gen I, my sister in-law even has one but it's been so long since I've seen it, I forgot that it looked different.