ICE miles ?

[rfruth]

How can you tell how many miles the ICE has run ? (if vehicle travels 10,000 miles how much of that was EV only, ICE only or both) thought about an hour meter but wrong data (want ICE miles or percent, not time) or a Scangauge but no good, any ideas ? (if it was under the dash, seat or hood thats fine)

[Oman]

There is no way that I know of. It doesn't seem that relevant because the ICE will provide charge for the battery (especially in the Winter) which will then convert to EV power. Should that count as EV or ICE miles and how would you know how much to allocate? People put a big emphasis on EV mode but in truth that is only a small fraction of the efficiency equation. If you have a charge in the battery then when you take-off with the ICE running you are going to be supplementing the ICE with electric power which reduces your fuel consumption. This effect overall provides more of the decrease in fuel consumption than EV mode alone does for overall driving.

 

Jon

 

 

How can you tell how many miles the ICE has run ? (if vehicle travels 10,000 miles how much of that was EV only, ICE only or both) thought about an hour meter but wrong data (want ICE miles or percent, not time) or a Scangauge but no good, any ideas ? (if it was under the dash, seat or hood thats fine)

[rpreuss]

I am surprised that there is no indication of ICE run time or even miles used. My boat had an hour meter. Many generators and other ICE powered devices have hour meters. I guess Ford is just ASS-U-MEing that the ICE will run a certain percentage of the time. Of course, now that it is getting colder in the morning, it is running a lot more, even when stopped, while it warms up. And because my commute is only 6 miles, that is a lot of engine time for the miles I am putting on the odometer.

[FFHdriver]

How can you tell how many miles the ICE has run ? (if vehicle travels 10,000 miles how much of that was EV only, ICE only or both) thought about an hour meter but wrong data (want ICE miles or percent, not time) or a Scangauge but no good, any ideas ? (if it was under the dash, seat or hood thats fine)

Why do you want to know/

[FFHdriver]

How can you tell how many miles the ICE has run ? (if vehicle travels 10,000 miles how much of that was EV only, ICE only or both) thought about an hour meter but wrong data (want ICE miles or percent, not time) or a Scangauge but no good, any ideas ? (if it was under the dash, seat or hood thats fine)

How do you plan on using that info?

[apm]

Hi,

 

Besides the FFH, I also own a GMC Yukon Hybrid. The Yukon has an engine running time meter. I would be nice to have the time meter in the FFH, particularly because the ICE spend a lot more time off than in the Yukon.

 

APM

[Oman]

It is pretty rare for cars to have Hobbes meters, but they are common on things where mileage is not the primary measurement of use. Everything on cars and trucks has been measured by miles for some time now.

 

Miles is a generally better measurement because unlike generators and such there is a considerable difference between idle use time and drive time as far as wear and consumables.

 

If you wanted it all you would need mileage and a Hobbes both for total "on" time and for ICE run time.

 

Jon

 

 

Hi,

 

Besides the FFH, I also own a GMC Yukon Hybrid. The Yukon has an engine running time meter. I would be nice to have the time meter in the FFH, particularly because the ICE spend a lot more time off than in the Yukon.

 

APM

[FFHdriver]

It is pretty rare for cars to have Hobbes meters, but they are common on things where mileage is not the primary measurement of use. Everything on cars and trucks has been measured by miles for some time now.

 

Miles is a generally better measurement because unlike generators and such there is a considerable difference between idle use time and drive time as far as wear and consumables.

 

If you wanted it all you would need mileage and a Hobbes both for total "on" time and for ICE run time.

 

Jon

I was thinking about Ford's suggested 10,000 mile oil change on the hybrid and figured that would only be about 7-8,000 miles running time on the ICE??????

[rfruth]

An hour meter would be nice but then the manual & dealer would have to explain how to use it (and say why non-hybrids don't have one) - anyway I'm the type of person that likes lots of information, a ICE meter would be nice, need to find a wire that is only hot when the engine runs - then could guesstimate ICE run time (but not intensity)

[Oman]

All the information in the car is available via two CAN busses. Accessories rarely actually tap into 12V wires any more, they usually tap into the CAN bus and communicate with the car. There are CAN bus messages for ICE start/stop etc. that can be pretty easily read. Actually a real geek tool for the FFH would be a CAN bus reader that stores and processes all the messages. You could "play back" in real-time a trip watching all the inputs like accel and break and see what the car does in response. The dash display is would be a child's tool compared to that!

 

Jon

 

 

An hour meter would be nice but then the manual & dealer would have to explain how to use it (and say why non-hybrids don't have one) - anyway I'm the type of person that likes lots of information, a ICE meter would be nice, need to find a wire that is only hot when the engine runs - then could guesstimate ICE run time (but not intensity)

[rpreuss]

Has anyone Jailbroken their FFH yet?

 

Oops, wrong forum! :redcard:

[mikenmar]

If you can estimate your MPG solely while running on ICE (call it "ICE MPG"), you can estimate your EV miles.

 

Start here:

 

(Avg MPG) = (Total miles)/(Total gallons)

 

= [(ICE miles) + (EV Miles)]/(Total gallons)

 

= (ICE miles)/(Total gallons) + (EV Miles)/(Total gallons)

 

Of course since all gallons are burned only when running on ICE, (ICE miles)/(Total gallons) = ICE MPG, so we can substitute (ICE MPG) for (ICE miles)/(Total gallons):

 

(Avg MPG) = (ICE MPG) + (EV miles)/(Total gallons)

 

Now subtract (ICE MPG) from both sides of the equation:

 

(Avg MPG) - (ICE MPG) = (EV miles)/(Total gallons)

 

And multiple both sides by (Total gallons):

 

[(Avg MPG) - (ICE MPG)] * (Total gallons) = Total EV miles

 

For example, my car has been getting about 38 MPG, and it's gone a total of 4,000 miles. So I've used about 4,000/38 = 105 total gallons. If I estimate my ICE MPG to be 25 MPG, and plug these numbers into my equation, I get:

 

(38 - 25)*105 = 1,365 EV miles

[fsb99]

If you can estimate your MPG solely while running on ICE (call it "ICE MPG"), you can estimate your EV miles.

 

Start here:

 

(Avg MPG) = (Total miles)/(Total gallons)

 

= [(ICE miles) + (EV Miles)]/(Total gallons)

 

= (ICE miles)/(Total gallons) + (EV Miles)/(Total gallons)

 

Of course since all gallons are burned only when running on ICE, (ICE miles)/(Total gallons) = ICE MPG, so we can substitute (ICE MPG) for (ICE miles)/(Total gallons):

 

(Avg MPG) = (ICE MPG) + (EV miles)/(Total gallons)

 

Now subtract (ICE MPG) from both sides of the equation:

 

(Avg MPG) - (ICE MPG) = (EV miles)/(Total gallons)

 

And multiple both sides by (Total gallons):

 

[(Avg MPG) - (ICE MPG)] * (Total gallons) = Total EV miles

 

For example, my car has been getting about 38 MPG, and it's gone a total of 4,000 miles. So I've used about 4,000/38 = 105 total gallons. If I estimate my ICE MPG to be 25 MPG, and plug these numbers into my equation, I get:

 

(38 - 25)*105 = 1,365 EV miles

 

Nice math work...you'd get the same approximation answer by the following shortcut:

 

(ICE MPG)/(Avg MPG)*(Total Miles)=(ICE MIles) and (EV Miles) = (Total Miles)-(ICE Miles)

For your assumptions:

25/38*4000 = 2632 ICE Miles; 4000-2632=1368 EV Miles (same as ([Avg MPG]-[iCE MPG])/[Avg MPG]*[Total miles]))

[Oman]

The math is fine but is essentially meaningless because you have to invent the factors with no basis. The result does not pass the smell test. Do you really think that your car travels more than 25% of its total distance in EV mode? EV mode is only a portion of the saving you get from a hybrid. The rest is in torque assist from the traction motor when the ICE is running, the low loss nature of the eCVT efficiencies, and the ICE shut-down during stand-still.

 

 

 

Jon

 

 

Nice math work...you'd get the same approximation answer by the following shortcut:

 

(ICE MPG)/(Avg MPG)*(Total Miles)=(ICE MIles) and (EV Miles) = (Total Miles)-(ICE Miles)

For your assumptions:

25/38*4000 = 2632 ICE Miles; 4000-2632=1368 EV Miles (same as ([Avg MPG]-[iCE MPG])/[Avg MPG]*[Total miles]))

[fsb99]

The math is fine but is essentially meaningless because you have to invent the factors with no basis. The result does not pass the smell test. Do you really think that your car travels more than 25% of its total distance in EV mode? EV mode is only a portion of the saving you get from a hybrid. The rest is in torque assist from the traction motor when the ICE is running, the low loss nature of the eCVT efficiencies, and the ICE shut-down during stand-still.

 

 

 

Jon

Jon,

 

I agree the system is too complicated to calculate by one formula. My reply is just the shortcut in the math formula presented. As suggested, maybe Ford has a quick and dirty average they use - not applicable for all, but as a fleet average; not a real burning question to me, just interesting topic.

[mikenmar]

The math is fine but is essentially meaningless because you have to invent the factors with no basis. The result does not pass the smell test.

 

The only factor you have to estimate is the ICE MPG; everything else is known. And the ICE MPG probably isn't that far off from what it would be for a pure-ICE car of the same weight, engine capacity, year, etc. So find a similarly-modeled, modern ICE car, and use the MPG of that model as an estimate of the ICE MPG. (Don't know if there's another Atkinson-engine car out there, but that can't be a *huge* difference -- just add a couple MPGs.)

 

Do you really think that your car travels more than 25% of its total distance in EV mode?

 

Personally, I drive a lot of highway miles, so it wouldn't be surprising to me.

 

EV mode is only a portion of the saving you get from a hybrid. The rest is in torque assist from the traction motor when the ICE is running, the low loss nature of the eCVT efficiencies, and the ICE shut-down during stand-still.

 

I would agree that the first part of that (the torque assist) is a complication; it essentially means there is no clear division between ICE miles and EV miles, in which case the original question isn't well-defined to begin with. I don't know if it comes on often enough to make my approximation inapplicable though.

 

As for the second part (ICE shut-down during stand still), that doesn't affect the analysis, because you are getting neither ICE miles nor EV miles while the car is in standstill. (Remember, the OP's question is how many ICE miles is he driving, not how much money is he saving.)

 

Anyway, I simply offered an estimate -- i.e., an approximation. It's better than nothing.