Input Needed - Fusion 2016 Hybrid

[RxFiller1963]

Hello,

 

I am currently looking at used Ford Fusion Hybrids and I have found a few that I really like. All of them are Certified Pre-Own Vehicles with a limited warranty. Is the lithium battery a covered item as I don't see any mention of it in the paperwork? I would also appreciate any information about what to look for when buying this car? Any issues that stand out for people? How do like this car for long trips? My commute is around 90 miles per day and I need something that won't wear me out just driving it. Is there anything about this car that you really like?

 

Thanks

 

David

[Griswald]

Very good car for long distance driving. My commute is 30 miles each way and its very good at it. I have driven non-stop (except for fill-ups and un-fills) 10 hours without driver fatigue.

 

As far as longevity, so far, so good. Cars are made so much better now that they last much longer than they used to.

 

I think all of the hybrid stuff is federally mandated (like all emission stuff) to be warrantied for 100000 miles, but I'm not sure of that.

[Larry Twitchell]

The hybrid powertrain and related components are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles from date of service.

If seats are a concern, the passenger seat in addition to the driver's seat is powered in SE models beginning in '15. In earlier years the passenger may complain that they're sitting in a hole.

My SE has adaptive cruise control (love it!), lane keeping system (quite good), blind spot monitoring (a life saver), and navigation (ok). The reversing camera is amazing and wouldn't consider a vehicle without it.

 

Really fun to drive. Very, very quiet and smooth riding. 24K since buying new in Dec. '15 and have overall mpg of 44.4. High speed interstate driving will get you 38 or so, careful moderate driving (64-66 mph tops) in mixed driving gets me 48-50 mpg.

 

I'm still learning things about the car. A fascinating rolling computer.

 

BTW, no spare tire.

 

Enjoy your hunt.

[lolder]

Stay away from 2013's unless the transmission has been repaired or replaced. Some also had an AC mold problem. 2014s + are OK as are 2010-12s which is a completely different car but in my opinion somewhat better. The 2013+s only get about 4 mpg better economy.

[djminfll]

Stay away from 2013's unless the transmission has been repaired or replaced. Some also had an AC mold problem.

 

I traded in my 2013 SE in December with almost 90K miles, never had a single repair the whole time I owned her. Transmission and AC were fine, I only did scheduled maintenance and had couple of software updates. Hybrid components are covered for up to 100K miles. Drive before you buy though - I wanted the Titanium on my 2013 at first, but for me personally, I found the seats less comfortable than the SE. I'm driving a 2017 Platinum now, seats are ridiculously comfortable!

[mwr]

My 2015 FFH (SE, Luxury Package with Leather Seats) is the best long-distance road car I've ever owned. Three times I've driven all day each way down to Southern California and back, and it's the first car I've owned in recent years that I haven't felt the need to adjust the seat position or move around during a long drive.

Edited July 1, 2017 by mwr

[lolder]

Ford has never issued a recall for the transmission problems and I believe they know which cars have the ( bad bearing? ) problem. The transmissions start to have a "grinding" noise that gets worse. The transmission should be silent except for a sometimes barely perceptible "electric whir" at very low speeds just after it begins moving and when stopping. Drivers shopping for a used car are not equipped to discern this. Probably not all 2013's are susceptible to this problem and the way they are driven may be a factor. There's no way to tell. Ford is waiting out the hybrid warranty on this issue. These transmissions should be and were bulletproof with very low failure rates before and after the first Ford in-house built 2013 transmissions.

A Japanese company, Aisin, ( the "Borg Warner" of Japan ) built all the Ford hybrid transmissions up til 2013. Ford brought the manufacture in house in the 2013 model onward.

In my opinion, in 50 years if you went to a junk yard to see the unrecognizable rusted remains of a FFH, you could salvage the transmission and the unaffected ones would work perfectly. Taxi companies using Ford Escape hybrids have taken these types of transmissions apart at over 300, 000 miles and found little wear at all.

Some also had a transmission case seam oil leakage problem, a rarity in any car today. All these problems required transmission removal, disassembly or replacement, a high labor cost process.

Edited July 1, 2017 by lolder

[Texasota]

Ford has never issued a recall for the transmission problems and I believe they know which cars have the ( bad bearing? ) problem. Ford is waiting out the hybrid warranty on this issue.

 

Interesting speculation but absent any actual facts, then speculation is all it is. If you have facts that support these accusations, then please share them.

[lolder]

It's a fact Ford hasn't issued any recall because it's not yet a safety issue. If the problem is a bad bearing as at least one owner was told, Ford should know what transmissions the bad parts went into. If they don't that's poor manufacturing accountability. These are my beliefs and opinions bolstered by over seven years participation in several hybrid forums. I think all the used FFHs are good buys except the early ones with the unresolved transmission and AC mold problems which appear to be mostly 2013s. If not all of then are faulty, we have know way of knowing which ones are good. I'ts a fact that the problems with the transmission occurred after Ford brought the manufacture in house. It's a fact the transmissions shouldn't have any "grinding" noise. It's a fact that pre and post 2013 transmissions have very low failure rates. It's a fact early high mileage transmissions have been inspected and found pristine. I've seen the taxi company YouTube videos. It's a fact that oil leaks are rare today. This is all very sad for Ford. They overstated the mpg starting with the 2013s and had to scramble with software that upped the max EV speed and didn't improve the mpg. The Energi's and C-max's that already had these higher EV speeds have an extra cooling circulation pump. They had to restate the mpg and give rebates to the owners. They are the only company that strangely didn't get hit with a massive fine for this. Whole dashboards had to be removed to put in redesigned AC plenums. If a 2013 with a repaired or replaced transmission and with the newer plenum is for sale, it's a good buy like all the others. If not, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[Texasota]

You sited numerous teething problems that the 2013 FFH experienced. No argument there. That is why Consumer Reports recommends not to purchase the first model year of a redesigned or new model from any manufacturer.

 

I went back and looked at the reliability data in the April issue of Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports compiles this data from their annual survey of owners. For the Ford Fusion it has top marks for "transmission minor" and "transmission major" for years 2013-2016 model years. Unfortunately, they did not break out the data separately for the FFH. But, if there was anything other than a small percentage of failures in the FFHs, then it would have likely showed up in the data reported by owners. Only speculation on my part, but I am willing to bet that the transmission failure rate for the 2013 FFH is no worse than the failure rate on the 6-speed automatic in the regular Fusion and you don't get a 100,000 mile warranty on that 6-speed automatic.

 

I find it curious that you have become so emotional/distraught over the 2013 FFH transmission issue which is a car (the second generation) that you don't own. For some reason it has you so upset that you have declared you are done with Ford because of it. If you want to get upset over a transmission issue in a Ford product that you don't own, then it should be the 2012+ Focus and Fiesta. That dual clutch transmission is truly a disaster and there was no recall for it. I know because I owned a 2012 (first year of the redesign) and I deeply regretted that I did not follow CR's advice about not buying the first model year of a major redesign. My 2012 Focus had ~40,000 miles and it was running on its third set of clutches and they needed to be replaced again when I traded it in on the FFH. Take a look at the CR reliability data for "transmission minor" and "transmission major" on the 2012+ Focus and Fiesta.

 

You sited no facts above that supports your accusation that Ford is trying to run out the transmission warranty on the FFH. What we do know is that Ford is honoring the warranty on the relatively small number that have failed.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Texasota

[lolder]

I'm not emotional but I am upset with Ford. I know they have been having transmission trouble with other cars. This type of hybrid transmission shouldn't have any failures and in fact other than the 2013s I don't know of any. I think we've had this discussion before. We disagree. You shouldn't have to pay for a new transmission even after 8/100,000 y/m. when it was caused by a manufacturing defect like this. They are not failing from wear and tear. I recommend all the other Ford hybrids. My FFH is the best car I've ever owned. I'm annoyed that they screwed up the first year of gen 2.

 

There is hardly anything to wear in these eCVT transmissions. There are only gears turning on gears, brushless motor/generators all on roller or ball bearings. These things should last 1,000,000 miles. The Toyota eCVTs and all the other Ford eCVTs are bulletproof. How do you screw up a bearing and a case seal today? It was probably a vendor but that's no excuse.

Edited July 2, 2017 by lolder

[Texasota]

Your standards are very high (and that is good) but they come across as unreasonably high (in my opinion). "Stuff" happens. Not long ago you stated that this transmission should have a failure rate of zero and we debated it. Very low failure rate? Yes, it is required to be competitive. Zero? Will never ever happen. It is unlikely any manufacturer reaches a failure rate of zero for any product and certainly not one as complex as this transmission.

 

I worked as a software engineer for 31+ years and I am familiar with how bad things can happen that no one could have ever anticipated or prevented with any amount of testing. In my experiences it was often a combination of multiple factors that all went wrong in just the right way to create a failure. A prime example of this was the front axle "cracking" sound that some of the 2013 FFHs exhibited. Waldo (an insider) explained to us that this was a result of mechanical/machining tolerances from multiple components all lining up in just the right way to create the problem. This is also a perfect example of how Ford knows what the problem is but they may not be able to identify exactly which cars will encounter it. "Stuff" happens. You have every right to your belief that Ford knows which FFHs transmissions will fail but none of us know the facts.

 

You are correct that many of the components that have caused Ford headaches have likely come from vendors. The black eye that Ford endured from Ford Sync was all software from Microsoft. The HVAC components that caused the musty odor problem were likely from a vendor. As you pointed out much of the transmission is probably designed/manufactured by vendors. In fact, the majority of the components in modern cars is from vendors. Should Ford use that as an excuse? Of course not, it would be a huge marketing and branding mistake. But, it is unlikely Ford could ever invest enough time/money into testing to ensure that no component failures are going to occur. Certainly they cannot do this while at the same time sell a product at a competitive price. I'm willing to give Ford the benefit of the doubt that they do there very best to design a quality product, test it and sell it at a competitive price. And then when that unexpected "stuff" happens they stand behind it with their warranty.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Texasota

[Cobra348]

Stay away from 2013's unless the transmission has been repaired or replaced. Some also had an AC mold problem. 2014s + are OK as are 2010-12s which is a completely different car but in my opinion somewhat better. The 2013+s only get about 4 mpg better economy.

My brother has a '13 with 75K miles and has not experienced unexpected repairs.

[lolder]

Good for him ! When Ford brought the manufacture of the excellent Aisin transmission in-house, they claimed they improved it. From a brief video view it looks identical. Bearings and case seal problems are not improvements. This was a mature, reliable device. The point is Ford has not been transparent about the problem. Damning with faint praise I'll agree hardly any auto manufacturers are open with their problems until they are forced to with recalls or publicity. If Ford knew what cars can have the problem they should have recalled them with a customer satisfaction repair as they did with the gen 1 brake software. If they don't, they should double the warranty on the cars that may have the problem.

[billford]

 

A Japanese company, Aisin, ( the "Borg Warner" of Japan ) built all the Ford hybrid transmissions up til 2013. Ford brought the manufacture in house in the 2013 model onward.

 

 

Is there a car or transmission build date or some other i.d. where Ford took over?

[lolder]

To my knowledge, the 2013 FFH model year. It's a completely different car from the previous 2010-12s.

[Jiasong]

Stay away from 2013's unless the transmission has been repaired or replaced. Some also had an AC mold problem. 2014s + are OK as are 2010-12s which is a completely different car but in my opinion somewhat better. The 2013+s only get about 4 mpg better economy.

I am driving a 2013 FFH Titanium since it was new, and I have no issue with it at all,so far. And I have the Ford Extended Care until 2022, which covers bumper to bumper except easily worn components with $100 detectable. I purchased this warranty after the original 3 year warranty is up, thus, I paid extra for inspection and a higher rate as ~$1800 for 5 years/60K miles, which one comes first. I believe you can purchase this warranty for a 2016 model at a much lower rate if the 3 years original warranty is still effective, and there is 0 detectable option available as well. Thus, there is really no need to worry about reliability at all.

I changed my tire to a better performance tire which lowed my mpg from 41.3 to 39.2, which was a bad decision.

[mwr]

I changed my tire to a better performance tire which lowed my mpg from 41.3 to 39.2, which was a bad decision.

From what tires to what tires?

[Jiasong]

Fr

 

From what tires to what tires?

From the OEM to Michelin Primacy MXM4. The feel is awesome, much quieter, but loose MPH.