12v Battery Issue on 2017 Fusion Hybrid

[rmsaunders6]

I note there are numerous topics on 12v battery problems with older FFHs. Rather than add onto one of those, I'm starting a new one because I'm experiencing similar problems on a 2017 FFH that we've had for 6 weeks and <1,200 miles. The 12v battery has died on us twice. First time after the car sat for 48 hours. We took it to the dealer who said that it was a bad 12v battery and replaced it. Now, about four weeks later, the new battery was dead, this time after the car sat for 24 hours. When I tried to start it, a clicking noise began in the fuse box and the red light on the gear selector knob blinked, but the dashboard did not light up, the car did not start and the clicking continued without stop until I jumped started the car. After jump starting, it ran fine, but the audio system is inoperative and the navigation system shows no GPS connection. It's Sunday evening, so I will take it back to the dealership first thing tomorrow AM.

 

Has anyone had similar experience with a new 2017? It seems HIGHLY improbable that we would get two bad 12v batteries in a row. What might be draining the battery after the car is shut off?

 

 

[machoman1337]

A friend of mine had this issue with a brand new Ford Escape. There was a bad cable in the instrument cluster that was causing rogue battery drain when the car was off. A replacement of the cluster fixed it.

[md13ffhguy]

Well, that's what warranties are for. Hopefully they can determine the root cause and get you back to normal soon.

[murphy]

There is also the question of how long the "new" battery had been sitting on a shelf at the dealer. I have no idea what is in a 2017 but I replaced the 12 volt battery in my 2013 Energi with an Optima AGM battery in the fall of 2013. I have not had any battery problems since then. I charge the battery if the car sits for a week without being driven using an AGM aware battery charger.

[lolder]

The replacement 12 vdc batteries from dealers have had a much better reliability than the ones that came in the car.

[rmsaunders6]

The service department just called. They kept the car overnight. They report that the battery is fine and that they can detect no drain on the battery when the car is off. In other words, they could not determine why two different batteries were drained of charge while the car was parked overnight. I will certainly elevate this problem to Ford at the first hint of a third occurrence.

 

Wish me luck.

[md13ffhguy]

It's frustrating when they can't replicate the issue. Hang in there and good luck!

[thire]

I have had a similar issue: the GPS and audio were already inoperative, then the battery died after two weeks of inactivity.

Do you have any follow up on your case?

[rmsaunders6]

An update from my original post. After 30 days in the shop, the dealership and Ford's tech support were unable to fix the problem. Ford has replaced the car under their buyback program. Other than the obvious inconvenience of coping with the charging problem, our experience with both Ford and the dealership were very positive. Everyone involved was helpful, considerate, and responsive. Sorry that I cannot offer anything on the underlying cause.

[stlouisgeorge]

Can you give some first hand knowledge of how the buyback program works? I could google it, but firsthand experience might be more useful. Thanks

[rmsaunders6]

Replying to stlouisgeorge (and risking going off the original topic). The buyback process was straightforward but time consuming. At the point when the same problem happened the second time with our original car, we consulted both the Ford warranty document and our state's "lemon law." We called Ford's central customer support number to open a case and simultaneously sent Ford a letter, so that there would be written notification. The front-line customer support staff were very helpful, and we received a call from the next higher tier support staff in a day or two. This representative worked with our dealership to escalate the level of technical support and kept us informed of the process. The dealership and Ford's tech reps tried to fix the problem up to the 30-day limit in our state's statute. (The dealership provided a loaner for the entire period at no cost to us.) At the 30-day deadline, our case transferred to a separate group that handles the buybacks themselves. This process ended up taking four additional weeks--but it was over the Christmas holiday, so some time was lost there. The dealership had to find a comparable car, we had to inspect and accept it, and paperwork had to pass between the dealership and Ford. Once everything was approved, it took about an hour at the dealership to hand over the title for the original car and take possession of the new one. There was no cost to us. The exchange is based on the MSRPs of the original and new vehicle. The new car's MSRP was a couple of hundred dollars less than the original car, and the difference just about matched the mileage charge deducted from the original's MSRP.

 

Other than the obvious frustration of having to deal with the original problem with the car, the buyback experience was as good as can be expected. The people at Ford and the dealership were responsive and helpful throughout. They kept us informed, made fair decisions at each step, and tried hard to make sure we were satisfied.

[stlouisgeorge]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. What an experience! Someone must have sneezed on the assembly line. This why I am probably going for the extended warranty.

[thewava]

I got my 2017 Ford Fusion on 12/24/16 and I started getting these problems about a week after I got the vehicle. It's great to hear that Ford Motor Company was a great help to some of you, but unlike for me they have been terrible. Everytime I call customer service, all they do is take down "notes" and refer me to the service center -_-.

 

My car has been draining power and they've already changed the battery and updated the software? I've taken it in for the second time now and the dealer said its some module that's causing the problem! Who knows.

Edited February 16, 2017 by thewava

[Waldo]

There is an known issue with the Telematics unit in the Energi drawing power. SSB 46368:

 

SSM 46368 - 2016 C-MAX Energi/Focus Electric/2016-2017 Fusion Energi - Battery Low State OfCharge And/Or Intermittent Battery Draw - Built On Or Before 10-Jul-2016

Some 2016 C-MAX Energi/Focus Electric and 2016-2017 Fusion Energi vehicles built on or before 10-Jul-2016, may exhibit a 12-volt and/or high voltage battery with a low state of charge and/or an intermittent battery draw. Reprogram the telematics control unit (TCU) to the latest level using IDS release 104.01 or higher. Make sure you are connected to the internet when entering module programming to obtain the latest updates. Calibration files may also be obtained at www.motorcraftservice.com. For claiming, use causal part 14G229 and applicable labor operations in section 10 of the service labor time standards (SLTS) manual.

[heplguy]

I've been having a very similar issue as the OP on my 2 month old 2017 hybrid. I started noticing the "System Off to Save Battery" message a few weeks ago. As of yesterday, my radio doesn't work...I can't even select to audio panel on Sync 3. I just seems to ignore my selection. No other audio source or sound works, either--not even the beeping sound when you touch the screen! No bluetooth, no voice activation chime, nothing. I'm also seeing the "No GPS" message.

 

About the same time that the "Save Battery" messages started appearing, my HV battery drained completely after being in the garage for 2 nights. At first I thought it was a fluke, or perhaps I was just imagining things. Now it's clear there's some underlying electrical drain issue with these cars.

 

I'll take it to the dealer this week and report back. Reading this thread, I have a general sense of dread about the resolution of this issue.

[murphy]

It should not be possible to drain the HVB. When the car is turned off contactors open that completely isolate the HVB from the car.

[bdginmo]

heplguy, just double checking...are you sure the HVB drained completely? What makes you think it did?

 

I realize it's designed differently, but even in our 2012 Ford Escape Hybrid where the HVB is used to keep the 12v battery charged the vehicle will not let the HVB discharge completely. We were occasionally seeing the HVB partially discharge overnight and it would go into charge recovery mode when started the next morning. That's where it aggressively runs the ICE and provides no HVB assist until the HVB gets back up to a normal SoC. We replaced the 12v battery and that problem went away. What was happening was the computer thought the 12v battery need to be charged overnight, but to prevent damage to the HVB it pulled the relay once the SoC got to around 20%. So the HVB was discharging overnight, but not completely.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think your car will start if the HVB is discharged completely.

 

And don't panic just yet. It could be something as simple as a defective 12v battery.

Edited February 19, 2017 by bdginmo

[heplguy]

bdginmo,

 

I now realize I chose my phrasing poorly. I live midway up a steep hill; that day I started at the top of the hill and was 100% charged when parking, based upon the completely full battery indicator. The next time I entered the car 2 days later (I'm the only driver), the state of charge was ~10% (estimated from the indicator), so it wasn't "drained completely". Perhaps my car experienced a similar issue to your Escape, since the first time I noticed the "System Off to Save Battery" was that morning when the HVB had also been largely depleted. Anyway, I hope you're right about the 12V battery!

[stlouisgeorge]

Just like to confirm what my Fusion salesman told me.. If 12V battery is dead.. The car (any Fusion?) is dead in ways that are not intuitive..

• Surprise! You can't open the Trunk with a dead/discharged 12v battery
• Surprise! You can't open the gas door with a dead/discharged 12V battery.
• Surprise! Since you can’t open the trunk, you can't get to the gas door manual override lever!
• Surprise! (this is the best one). Since you can’t open the trunk, you can’t get to the dead 12V battery in the trunk (“huh?)
• Wanna push/tow to the nearest service station? Surprise! Without special knowledge from the manual (out of scope), releasing the electric parking brake and putting the car into neutral using the electric shifting knob are impossible.
• You can't open the driver car door with a dead/discharged 12v Battery unless you have the actual laser-cut key. Key? What key? Who needs a key? It's 2017! Train yourself [page 49 of the manual — now locked inside your "dead" car] on how to get into the car with a key.
• The Key Blade:
• Hope you didn't lock your "intelligent access key" [Fob] and your smart phone in the "dead" car. If so, you can stop reading.
• In your fob is your actual "key" ("removable key blade”).
• This is a key so complicated it takes a laser and your "security label" to reproduce (example "12345 X SAVE FOR CUSTOMER RECORDS”). This is the small square of cardboard which came on ONE of your TWO original Fobs identifying YOUR car's lock. It should be in a very safe place. Obviously you can’t go to Home Depot to get one made.
• Locate the depress-able dark plastic "release button" next to the "panic" button on the fob. Press and the key blade should "pop" out.
• Under the driver door handle is a secret "cap". Looking from below on the handle, locate the seam and slide the cap to the right to expose the key hole ("cylinder”).
• Insert the key carefully [scratch!] and push up. I assume this will open the door mechanically (no power needed) Do not rotate/turn the key — instead, push up with gusto (my salesman actually said “with gusto” a few times on the walk-around to open/close the hood and trunk).
• Time to “remotely” jump start the battery. (Genius! The Ford engineers came up with this idea to save a cubic foot in the engine bay..) Under the hood (unlike everything else, the hood can be opened manually if you got in the car AND know where the release lever is!). For jump-starting, there is a hidden positive post under a plastic cap in the engine bay (page 229). Use the normal jump starting procedure with this positive post and any other piece of “grounded” metal — specifically the (unlabeled) screw/bolt to the left of the positive post shown in the manual.
• Now you can get to everything!

   

  Keep the phone number for Ford Roadside Assistance (1-800-241-3673), AAA, tire mfr roadside assistance, and/or your insurance roadside assistance (SafeCo has it).

   

  [betcha didn't know this one...]

  If your Fusion runs out of gas, and won't start after adding fuel, you should press the start/stop button several times to force fuel through the fuel pump until it reaches the combustion chamber. [page 155]

   

  I highly recommend The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook.

   

  If you got this far I also highly recommend the $130 “idiot proof”

  Jump-N-Carry JNC660 1700 Peak Amp 12-Volt Jump Starter

I'll correct any cited mistakes. Please don’t reply: “My 2008 laser chip key …”, or “My cousin got their 2010 Fusion open by..”, or “a locksmith can open” — unless you personally had a locksmith experience in the latest Ford “intelligent access key” (Fob) era. Edited February 19, 2017 by stlouisgeorge

[md13ffhguy]

You could pop the trunk by folding down the rear seat, crawling in, and pulling the inside safety release.

[stlouisgeorge]

You could pop the trunk by folding down the rear seat, crawling in, and pulling the inside safety release.

That's why I have teens. Edited February 20, 2017 by stlouisgeorge

[bdginmo]

This happened to me with a rental car once. I don't remember what the vehicle was (it wasn't a Fusion). My coworker called AAA and none of us (including the tow truck driver) could figure out how to open the doors and ultimately access the 12v battery. We had physical keys, but apparently the door locks were completely electronic. The vehicle had to be towed back to the airport.

[heplguy]

Just to update everyone on my issue. I took my car to the dealer today. As expected, the problem was low voltage on the 12V battery. They charged it up and now everything is working again. We're going to see if the battery can keep the charge before taking the next step. Thanks for everyone's contributions!

[bdginmo]

helpguy, good plan. If you continue to have problems replacing the 12v battery might be the next step. If that doesn't work then I believe there is a DC-to-DC converter used to charge the battery that could be bad. My gut tells me there's a problem somewhere otherwise why would there be a low voltage on the 12v battery when you took it into the dealer. I'm assuming you're still under the bumper-to-bumper to warranty?

Edited February 22, 2017 by bdginmo

[talmy]

Not really a mistake, but you make it seem worse than it is. We also have a Camry hybrid and both cars are similarly "tricky" to get around a dead 12v battery.

 

The owner's manual is available on-line. So if you have web access you can get the information you need about using the key to get inside. Once you pop the hood and connect the jumper battery you can open the trunk without contorting yourself through the back seat.

 

Just like to confirm what my Fusion salesman told me.. If 12V battery is dead.. The car (any Fusion?) is dead in ways that are not intuitive..

• I'll correct any cited mistakes. Please don’t reply: “My 2008 laser chip key …”, or “My cousin got their 2010 Fusion open by..”, or “a locksmith can open” — unless you personally had a locksmith experience in the latest Ford “intelligent access key” (Fob) era.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by talmy