So this is interesting - Hybrid Payback Period

[CCalvinN]

I have heard of 'pay off calculators' for hybrids before, but never gave them any thought. They were just always part of the background and not anything that I even gave a second thought too when considering what car I wanted to buy. I just considered fuel efficiency as any other option. An option that had a requirement.

 

Coming from a 2012 Ford Focus, I had the following set of requirements in any new car:

• Not going down in fuel efficiency
• Bigger car overall
• Good sounding stock stereo
• Keyless Start
• Interesting styling
• Tech toys (MyFord Touch, Auto headlights, rain sensing wipers, auto high beams, lane keep assist, BLIS,

 

With every option, I expected to pay for it. Of course getting a bigger car would cost more. Of course having a keyless start system would cost more. Of course tech toys would cost more. Styling is in the eye of the beholder and I hoped it wouldn't cost more, but I would pay more for a car that I liked.

 

I didn't go specifically for a hybrid to be green or to save money, it was just a requirement. A requirement to use less of a limited resource that is dirty and harmful to the environment. The gasoline Fusion offered all of the options save for the fuel efficiency. If Ford had offered the Fusion with a diesel that got 50+ mpg (and didn't sound like a diesel), I would have selected that over the gasoline or hybrid options... and I would expect to pay more for that particular feature.

 

At it's core, that's one of the reasons I don't put much effort at all into getting better fuel economy out of my car. Driving it like I've driven all of my previous cars nets me the expected (or better) fuel efficiency. I can see how people would end up with the same car coming from an entirely different set of requirements. Someone who wanted to spend as little money on fuel as possible could follow their calculations and come to the Fusion Hybrid. They'd just take a different path than I did. I can't/won't knock them for their decision or decision process. I just don't expect them to knock my decision or decision process either.

 

I fully plan on trading this car in for a newer model in a couple years. According to the calculators out there I'll end up 'losing' money on getting a hybrid as opposed to a regularly fueled version. But I got what I wanted and am happy with that.

[lolder]

During the Great Recession, the AVERAGE age of cars and light trucks on US roads reached 10.8 years. A car can reasonably be expected to reach 200K miles and 12-14 years with routine maintenance. The calculation of hybrid payback time is aimed at drivers that trade new cars in every 2-3 years. That is a skewed picture. The actuality is these cars will about pay for at least half of their total purchase price over the life of the car. You can't compare a non hybrids highway mpg to a hybrids. The US city- highway mileage mix is about 50-50 (60-40, 40-60? ). Nothing but a hybrid or electric solves the city mileage penalty. Certainly not a VW TDI.

HVBs are proving to be more reliable than automatic transmissions with similar after-market replacement costs. The picture is fuzzy because so few HVBs have failed even under warranty. It is becoming a non-issue.

[Waldo]

So I think what this thread proves is that there is a group of the population out there who appreciates the driving experience of the hybrid and don't really care about the payback period. But let's remember that hybrids are still just a tiny, tiny part of the overall vehicle market, and the payback calculations are the main reason people DON'T buy a hybrid, so whether you care or not, the payback period is a very important factor in the development of the hybrid market.

[raadsel]

So I think what this thread proves is that there is a group of the population out there who appreciates the driving experience of the hybrid and don't really care about the payback period. But let's remember that hybrids are still just a tiny, tiny part of the overall vehicle market, and the payback calculations are the main reason people DON'T buy a hybrid, so whether you care or not, the payback period is a very important factor in the development of the hybrid market.

 

As others have pointed out, though, in many ways the hybrid payback is used as much as an excuse as an actual objection. I know some of the same people who have balked at the hybrid payback period have no issue paying a similar amount of money for the optional larger engine, or put lots of expensive options on the car, etc. As pointed out, many of the hybrid payback periods are overstated, as they don't account for the extra options hybrids frequently come with.

 

I'd also suggest that part of the issue many people have with hybrids are based on the Prius; they believe hybrids are "ugly" and/or have no power, not aware of many of the nicer hybrids, or have been "harassed" by "Prius Nazis" who think everyone should have to drive a hybrid. Now while I say some of that tongue in cheek, the fact is that a large percentage of the driving public has a lot of misconceptions about hybrids.

[GrySql]

the fact is that a large percentage of the driving public has a lot of misconceptions about hybrids.

Ain't that the truth....

I did too before I bought this FFH in 2012.

[hybridbear]

So I think what this thread proves is that there is a group of the population out there who appreciates the driving experience of the hybrid and don't really care about the payback period. But let's remember that hybrids are still just a tiny, tiny part of the overall vehicle market, and the payback calculations are the main reason people DON'T buy a hybrid, so whether you care or not, the payback period is a very important factor in the development of the hybrid market.

Exactly! I would say that we fall into that group. I did some calculations on the costs of the Focus Electric to help sell my wife on the concept of EVs but those calculations were more to show her that it wasn't cost prohibitive to drive an EV versus talking about saving money. The same was true when looking at hybrids back a few (4-ish) years ago.

 

When we traded the FFH for the FFE last year it also wasn't about payback on the gas saved by having the ~20 miles of EV range, it was about improving the driving experience by only having to use an ICE when we're driving on the freeway where you can't really hear it.

[md13ffhguy]

Don't forget, when gas prices dropped dramatically last year, SUV sales increased, while hybrid sales decreased. The higher the gas prices, the quicker the payback is achieved. If gas dropped to $1/gallon (and all other things stayed relatively the same), you'd see very, very few new hybrids on the road. Heck, if I could be assured that gas would remain that cheap, I'd be driving a hot, new Mustang. That would be a no-brainer for me.

[dalesky]

LOL!

o/t

What fridge did you decide to get?

[nv rick]

Don't forget, when gas prices dropped dramatically last year, SUV sales increased, while hybrid sales decreased. The higher the gas prices, the quicker the payback is achieved. If gas dropped to $1/gallon (and all other things stayed relatively the same), you'd see very, very few new hybrids on the road. Heck, if I could be assured that gas would remain that cheap, I'd be driving a hot, new Mustang. That would be a no-brainer for me.

I don't know; wouldn't it be great to drive cross country for less than $75.00?

[md13ffhguy]

I don't know; wouldn't it be great to drive cross country for less than $75.00?

But a 2015 Mustang GT would get there for probably no more than half that (@ $1/gal). That's just a night at a cheap, roadside motel! ;)

[TonyHzNV]

I dunno..... I guess I'm one of those "whole experience" guys. I like the styling/looks, the comfort, the technology & toys, the fuel efficiency, the acceptable Highway performance, the reasonable price, available options & aftermarket accessories, the quiet cabin, and the generous hybrid specific component warranty & availability of an affordable ESP. As you will all agree, the car is not perfect, but for me at least, it's close and will only get better with time. All of these reasons combined are why I would buy another one once the technology advances a little more in 2 or 3 years. Looking forward to Sync 3, Android Auto, and whatever improvements Ford makes in the hybrid technology itself. The new Malibu hybrid looks pretty nice too though, so I may have to take a look at it as well. We'll see when the time comes, but for now I love my FFH! It pays me back every time I drive it. I enjoy it that much!

[BiXLL]

I have not yet pulled the trigger but am close. I came to be interested in the FFH after looking/considering the Toyota Avalon Hybrid. I have a 2002 avalon that has given me 13 years and 200,000 miles of absolutely amazing service. I drive 28 miles each way to work in city driving. I decided I wanted a Hybrid to help lower comute cost. Having a soft smooth, quiet ride is very important me. I was very skeptical when I went to drive the FFH, but considering it would be 8 to 10 thousand less when featured out the same, and the fact the FFH looks so much better I had to give it a try. I was amazed and impressed with the ride quality/quietness. There are also a lot of little things that gives it an advantage such as the fold down rear seats, lithiom batteries instead of nicad, etc. While I did reasearch the payback period which I figured it out in my case to be about 2 1/2 years, the fact that I keep my cars 10 plus years just makes the savings add up more. I guess long story short, it was multuiple things that got me interested in the FFH, not just payback period.

[tr7driver]

A hybrid will also bring a higher sale price if you decide to trade.

[jtbogus]

Payback? My neighbor is getting his FFE for free! He was driving a six speed 435hp Camaro 100mi rt to work for a $600./mo gas bill. Now he averages about $100./mo, paying for the car handily. Thats pretty nice payback.

[talmy]

Our first hybrid was a 2007 Camry. We weren't looking specifically at hybrids at the time, in fact our two contenders were the Fusion (Gas of course back then) or Camry. I calculated a roughly 70k mile payback for the Camry Hybrid over the the Camry gas (4 cylinder). We now have 125k miles on it and it no longer gets much use as it is now the second car. I think we also did better with depreciation but the cars have little residual value by the time we get rid of them (in fact we usually give them away).

 

But it wasn't just the fuel savings that sold us. The smoothness of power transfer (no transmission shifts) and lower noise levels was also a factor. We also have had next to no maintenance issues (only a water pump had to be replaced) and the battery replacement "scare" turned out to be just that.

 

So when it became time to get a newer car with more advanced safety features we only looked at hybrids and basically the payback period wasn't a concern. We got the Fusion hybrid. Never even got in a gas Fusion. We also test drove the C-MAX, Camry, Avalon, Prius V, and considered the Accord but it wasn't available here at the time. I wish we also looked at the MKZ -- probably will when we reach 100k on the Fusion).

[talmy]

A hybrid will also bring a higher sale price if you decide to trade.

 

But enough to cover the difference in original cost? Just for kicks I went to KBB.COM to get the average dealer sales price for a 2013 MKZ versus MKZh (since they sell new for the same price). The hybrid was about $1500 higher. I'd say that the MKZh payback period isn't just 0 (because same sales price) but is actually negative. Comparison could be done for the Fusion, but it is complicated by different original sales price.