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Regen Braking Issue When Turning


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164 replies to this topic

#161 OFFLINE   machoman1337

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 05:05 PM

Tried replicating this myself. If I understand it correctly, there is noticeable loss of braking control for a fraction of a second during the turn?

 

Unfortunately even when I went super light footed I wasn't able to replicate the problem. I experienced slippage once but it was raining cats and dogs so that was probably the real cause.


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My precious: 2013 Fusion Hybrid SE Ice Storm - Luxury Package (Dune), Navigation, Tech Package, Active Park Assist, Moonroof (ugh), 18" premium painted luxury wheels. Built in July 2012, bought CPO (former demonstrator) in May 2014. 6.3L/100 km lifetime fuel economy

 

Current temporary ride: 2003 Lexus LS430 w/navigation and parking sensors. Bought in December 2002, selling when I graduate








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#162 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 03:18 PM

It is easy to reproduce the "feeling".  Find a manhole cover that is an inch or so below the level of the street.  Drive over the cover with either front wheel while braking with regen braking only.  It feels like the car surges forward but it is actually the instantaneous loss of all braking while the wheel is floating in the air before it drops down and makes contact with the manhole cover.  Pressing hard enough on the brake pedal to engage the friction brakes will prevent the "feeling".

 

It happens because regen braking is not possible if either front wheel loses contact with the ground.

I have told you many times that this IS NOT the issue being discussed in this thread. Please stop inserting misinformation into the discussion.

 

OK, then I'll take back saying never. I have experienced that phenomenon on such occasions. THAT'S what all this fuss is about? While seeming odd, coming from a "normal" car, I'm not alarmed by it. Can't imagine this would ever turn into a recall. Nor do I think this would ever result in anyone losing control of the car.

No, murphy has been spouting misinformation in this thread. All cars do what murphy describes. He is stating misinformation & causing confusion.

 

I think there is some truth to the "close to an ABS event" comment the Ford engineer. Here is why.

So far everything we have heard is at low speed <20 MPH but I had the sensation at least twice on a freeway exit ramp. Even though it only lasts for a fraction of a second at 45 - 50 MPH it's no joke.

Reason I think there is some truth to the ABS event comment is that is all instances the ramp was slightly wet and I could definitely feel the car being on the edge of having grip at that speed.

Yes I should have taken the exit slower and it wouldn't have happened but the FFH handles so well and predictable (except for the sudden lack of regen braking) it's part of the fun driving this car.

This is also NOT the issue being discussed in this thread. The issue being discussed here happens at low speeds where the car is nowhere near the limit of grip. Experiencing weird behavior when tires are starting to slip would not be unexpected.

 

There are two different situations where the sudden loss of regen deceleration for a fraction of a second results in occupants experiencing the "lurching forward" feeling. In my experience, one has happened all along, the second appears to be new and a result of a software update.

One is where one of the front wheels loses contact or traction with the ground so regen braking is deactivated temporarily. I've experienced this on a few occasions over the 2.5 years I've driven my car and have had to quickly hit the brake pedal harder to engage the friction brakes to make up for lost braking time.

The 2nd is where regen braking appears to be temporarily deactivated while decelerating while the wheels are turned with the outside wheel rolling slightly faster than the inside wheel. The computer algorithm seems to be misinterpreting this as a wheel slip/loss of one wheel traction situation as in case #1. I've never experienced this in any of my driving. Until tonight. Dry flat parking lot, 55 degrees F, regen braking into a diagonal parking space the car "lurched" when the braking disappeared for a fraction of a second. Almost crossed over the front line of the space. I'll have to watch out for this now.

The only thing that changed was that I had my car serviced earlier in the day and had the recall work done with their software upgrades.

The 2nd issue is what we are talking about here. This is another case of the issue being cause by a software update.


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#163 OFFLINE   sleamiller

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:13 AM

My FFH has done this twice now. Both were turning into my driveway. The first was a few months ago I believe and it was such a lurch that for a moment I wondered if I had been rear ended as I turned into my drive. I'm usually in EV+ at this point and my road is paved but my drive is gravel. The road goes downhill but the drive is more flat. It happened again two nights ago and I thought I was going to go into the culvert. That kind of acceleration/lack of braking will get your adrenaline going like nothing else. I'm not amused. It is a definite safety issue. I'm taking my car to the dealer next Thursday but after reading this thread I don't have a lot of hope. I stop when I pull into my drive to get the mail so I'm not sure how fast I am going but it's not fast by any stretch. If the dealer can't find an issue then I will log the issue on the NTSB site.

#164 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 02:18 PM

File a report with NHTSA here: https://www-odi.nhts...hicleComplaint/



#165 OFFLINE   hikyuuri

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:06 PM

Old topic, I know, but wanted to add to it.

I never really paid attention to it before, just attributed it to tire slippage, or just how the system handles transitioning from the regen braking to the service brakes as speed decreases.  However, I experience the exact same sensation in my 2014 FFH.

 

I have to make a right hand turn at the bottom of a hill every day to get home from work.  The hill is long enough that I can coast and achieve 50MPH, though most of the time, I stick around 40 due to the turn (woo, free energy for the battery!).  Usually, I achieve a 100% brake score on this hill as I have really timed it out on when I have to brake and how hard I have to break.  By the time I enter the right turn lane, I am going around 30MPH, and when I make the turn I am usually somewhere between 5mph and 15mph (weather depending and the mood I am in).  Quite often, I will feel the car lurch forward as if the brakes went out, then suddenly brakes will return just a fraction of a second later.  Since I didn't actually come to a full stop, I don't get a brake score, but I know it would be quite high (easily above 90%).

 

There are no potholes, manholes, or anything else on this turn.  We live in the middle of the country, so there are not even curbs, let alone manhole covers.  Just nice, fresh, smooth asphalt.  This happens basically any weather (I live in MN, so I get all the extremes), with any cargo weight, and basically any battery charge (except when it is full, in which case the service brakes are already engaged).

 

I get the feeling its something about how the car is trying to transition from the regen braking to the service brakes in the middle of the turn.  I *sometimes*, though extremely rarely, get the same sensation when going down a long hill and the car suddenly transitions from regen to service brakes due to the battery being fully charged (around 70 on the SoC).  I have never heard the ABS kick in (you can usually hear the ABS pump whining when it is actually being used), so I don't think its an ABS issue on its own, but something with the transition between regen and service brakes.

 

At this point, I just expect it to happen, so I always counter it by over braking during my turns.  I have been driving the car for 3 years now, and of all the quirks, this is definitely annoying, but something I have trained myself to expect and work around.






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