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High Transmission Temperature

Transmission

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123 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 02:30 PM

As for grill blocking, in extreme cold, it will not harm the car, from what I recorded in temps, they are still below summertime readings with an unblocked grill.   Blocking the grill in the summer though, I would not do. 

My experience as well. Temps under the hood get hotter in summer with no blocking than in winter with blocking.


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#22 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 03:03 PM

Billford Wrote"

Just wondering, what are you using to monitor it with?

 

I have a ScanGaugeII and figured out what Codes to put in it with help of a friend. I gave them to hybridbear or I can post them.


Just wondering, what are you using to monitor it with?

 

My experience as well. Temps under the hood get hotter in summer with no blocking than in winter with blocking.

With the CMAX I run Middle and Lower Grill Covers and remove Top Cover when its hot.  I only see about a 10 degree differential between IT and OT when it's over a 100*F, it will get hotter if you stop because you have no air flow.  Not sure having covers or not make a difference if you're stopped. :)

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 21 February 2015 - 03:08 PM.

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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#23 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 11:35 PM

The original post quoted a tech as saying the "Transmission Electronics" gave a warning at 301. That is the inverters and other electronics cooled by coolant, not the transmission fluid. The coolant would not get to 301 so it must be measuring elsewhere perhaps right on the IGBT power controllers. I don't think the coolant or transmission fluid should get much above 215.



#24 OFFLINE   Zathrus

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 09:30 AM

 

I have three questions in regards to second diagram in previous post:

 

1. Is the small radiator directly above the transmission cooler the inverter (electronics) cooler?

2. Do both the transmission and inverter coolers get their airflow from the lowest grill?

3. Does answers to 1 and 2 above apply to both FFH and C-Max? 

 

Thanks.



#25 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 11:27 AM

The original post quoted a tech as saying the "Transmission Electronics" gave a warning at 301. That is the inverters and other electronics cooled by coolant, not the transmission fluid. The coolant would not get to 301 so it must be measuring elsewhere perhaps right on the IGBT power controllers. I don't think the coolant or transmission fluid should get much above 215.

This information in this Thread is ONLY for Trans Fluid Temp and Trans Cooling System.  This has nothing to do with Inverter cooling system! Transmission has it's own Control Module and when it detects TFT above 300*F it triggers a code and wrench symbol.  Apparently  FORD thinks it is safe to heat up Trans Fluid to 300*F unless someone can find different info from FORD.

 

 

I have three questions in regards to second diagram in previous post:

 

1. Is the small radiator directly above the transmission cooler the inverter (electronics) cooler?

2. Do both the transmission and inverter coolers get their airflow from the lowest grill?

3. Does answers to 1 and 2 above apply to both FFH and C-Max? 

 

Thanks.

1. Yes.    2.CMAX Yes, FFH I believe grills aren't separated.  3.Yes :)

 

Paul


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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#26 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 11:32 AM

 

I have three questions in regards to second diagram in previous post:

 

1. Is the small radiator directly above the transmission cooler the inverter (electronics) cooler?

2. Do both the transmission and inverter coolers get their airflow from the lowest grill?

3. Does answers to 1 and 2 above apply to both FFH and C-Max? 

 

Thanks.

First off, the illustrations in that prior post are for the PHEV.  The HEV does not have the Aux transmission pump, see below.

Electronic Powertrain Cooling
Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-02-22 at 8.21.52 AM.png   233.42KB   0 downloads

 

The HEV Illustrations:

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-02-22 at 8.12.38 AM.png   185.1KB   0 downloads

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-02-22 at 8.13.11 AM.png   292.94KB   0 downloads


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#27 OFFLINE   Zathrus

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 01:44 PM

Thanks for the diagrams. 

 

So second diagram above states the Transmission fluid pump (in HEV) is driven by ICE shaft (which means it does not run when in EV mode in HEV model).

 

First diagram shows Electric Powertrain cooling pump (item 6, P/N 18D474), but does not indicate what powers this pump.  Anyone know what powers this pump? 

 

Thanks.



#28 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 03:31 PM

This  morning I had the Trans Heater on for three hours and It was reading 148*F with garage temp of 57*F.  My HVB was low so the ICE started up immediately and TFT dropped to 132*F quickly and back up to 136*F by the time I got to work in 2.4mi., an indication that the Trans pump is working some, OT was 41*F. :)

 

Paul

 

Thanks for the diagrams. 

 

So second diagram above states the Transmission fluid pump (in HEV) is driven by ICE shaft (which means it does not run when in EV mode in HEV model).

 

First diagram shows Electric Powertrain cooling pump (item 6, P/N 18D474), but does not indicate what powers this pump.  Anyone know what powers this pump? 

 

Thanks.

It would have to be an electric motor powered by 12v battery I would guess. :)

 

Paul


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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#29 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 11:24 AM

Here are the right numbers for the XGauge for Trans Fluid Temp for the ScanGaugeII:

 

TXD: 07E6221E1C

RXF: 0462051E061C

RXD: 3010

MTH: 000900500020

NAM: TFT

:)

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 11 March 2015 - 03:57 PM.

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163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#30 OFFLINE   billford

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 07:55 PM

I don't have a Scangauge yet, but I'm planning on buying one in the next few weeks...

 

Does anyone know if the grill shutters can be monitored with the Scangauge?

 

Also, what is the latest Scangauge version I should be looking for?

 

Thanks.


Edited by billford, 24 February 2015 - 08:01 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:09 AM

I don't have a Scangauge yet, but I'm planning on buying one in the next few weeks...

 

Does anyone know if the grill shutters can be monitored with the Scangauge?

 

Also, what is the latest Scangauge version I should be looking for?

 

Thanks.

ScanGaugeII looks like the best one to have.  hybridbear said he could monitor shutter position, but I don't know if that was with a ScanGaugeII.  Although my experience with a Web Cam and LapTop showed shutters were either open or closed, he saw with scanner different percentages of being open. :)

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#32 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 10:44 AM

I checked the Service Manual and they don't explain about changing the Transmission Fluid, just Back Flushing and Cleaning it. I wonder what the logic is behind that.  I wonder if this is a EPA thing not wanting to dispose of it. wink.png

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#33 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 11:30 AM

Its not a conventional transmission with clutch packs and such where the fluid is dual purpose, used for lubrication, and friction. Fluid wears out over time in that environment, especially when it gets overheated, but the eCVT is all gears and motors, so in theory, since its only used to lubricate, it should never wear out.   In a perfect world that is. When assembled, if it was kept extremely clean, and all the parts fit perfectly and the seal on the unit was perfect, then it would last a lifetime, but we all know that only happens on the Space Shuttle. 


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#34 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 05:27 PM

Looks like I got confused with cleaning Trans Cooler.  There is a drain plug and filler plug for changing Trans Fluid. Changing Fluid isn't a trivial thing to do on a CMAX if you have to take the air cleaner off coming from experience with cut up hands replacing the Air Filter.  Looks like FFH could be easier. I wonder if it is possible to do with out removing air cleaner? wink.gif

 

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#35 OFFLINE   TonyHzNV

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 08:43 PM

When assembled, if it was kept extremely clean, and all the parts fit perfectly and the seal on the unit was perfect, then it would last a lifetime, but we all know that only happens on the Space Shuttle. 

Even the Space Shuttle blew up! And Ford isn't NASA! If they were closer to being NASA, maybe MFT would work right. And maybe we would get free map updates! Ever read a TSB on the Space Shuttle? Now THAT'S a TSB!  :)


Edited by TonyHzNV, 26 February 2015 - 08:46 PM.

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#36 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:51 PM

Well the shuttle itself didnt blow up, the O-ring failed from being too cold prior to launch on the booster, that leaked a flame that burned into the main tanks, and that is what blew up. Shuttle was just a side effect of the big bang. The second shuttle disaster was another case of external causes, ice falling from the main tank damaged the heat tiles, and thats what caused the second failure. 

 

 

Funny when you think about it though, our cars have ore computing power in the seats than the Apollo missions had. 


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#37 OFFLINE   TonyHzNV

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 12:52 AM

Well the shuttle itself didnt blow up, the O-ring failed from being too cold prior to launch on the booster, that leaked a flame that burned into the main tanks, and that is what blew up. Shuttle was just a side effect of the big bang. The second shuttle disaster was another case of external causes, ice falling from the main tank damaged the heat tiles, and thats what caused the second failure. 

OK, OK, I'll give you that. I know the story of the o-ring on the booster. And I have to agree that the Challenger was just a side effect of the big bang. I still remember the day it happened. January 28, 1986 I was at Ramstein Air Base, Germany picking up 6 brand new shiny Blackhawk helicopters for my unit. Offloaded them from the C-5A and put 'em in a hangar for the night. Saw the Challenger/booster exploding on the news that night when we got back to the BOQ. The TV in the lounge near the entrance was on and we walked in right in the middle of the news story. I remember thinking "what the heck is that?" when I saw the video on the TV and then they put up the caption "Challenger Tragedy" on the screen. That was sad.

 

I have to disagree with you however on the cause of the Columbia disaster. It wasn't ice, but a piece of foam insulation that broke off the Shuttle's external tank during launch and damaged the left wing. Upon re-entry, hot gases got into the damaged wing area and basically destroyed the internal wing structure making it unstable and caused the shuttle to gradually break apart. That, like the Challenger, was also very sad for me.


Edited by TonyHzNV, 27 February 2015 - 01:03 AM.

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#38 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 10:42 AM

The sad thing was that the shuttle was truly always an accident waiting to happen and a lot of the technical people knew it. When it was first flown the odds of a complete loss were one in every 500 missions calculated by the techniques of the time. After the Challenger, they recalculated it to about one in 120. After Columbia, it was one in 9 so they grounded it. The shuttles sometimes launched with hundreds of open or continued maintenance items. It was the rare astronaut that wasn't fearful during a launch. It was designed to lower costs to orbit by a factor of 10 and instead raised it by 10. It was pretty much a failure which was determined by the original design with the solid boosters and fragile thermal protection. The Apollo Saturn 5 was safer. They could escape with the abort rocket at almost any time. A Russian crew did so with a similar system with a launch pad explosion that killed a lot of ground personnel. At least that's how I remember.


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#39 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 03:41 PM

The sad thing was that the shuttle was truly always an accident waiting to happen and a lot of the technical people knew it. When it was first flown the odds of a complete loss were one in every 500 missions calculated by the techniques of the time. After the Challenger, they recalculated it to about one in 120. After Columbia, it was one in 9 so they grounded it. The shuttles sometimes launched with hundreds of open or continued maintenance items. It was the rare astronaut that wasn't fearful during a launch. It was designed to lower costs to orbit by a factor of 10 and instead raised it by 10. It was pretty much a failure which was determined by the original design with the solid boosters and fragile thermal protection. The Apollo Saturn 5 was safer. They could escape with the abort rocket at almost any time. A Russian crew did so with a similar system with a launch pad explosion that killed a lot of ground personnel. At least that's how I remember.


That's why NASA is going back to the "old" system now called SLS.
Last year we went to the KSC and saw the transporter crawler being modified and also the launch pad being worked on. Pretty impressive I must say but nothing close to being there for an actual launch I'm sure.

How did we get that far off topic :)
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#40 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 04:42 PM

That's why NASA is going back to the "old" system now called SLS.
Last year we went to the KSC and saw the transporter crawler being modified and also the launch pad being worked on. Pretty impressive I must say but nothing close to being there for an actual launch I'm sure.

How did we get that far off topic :)

Transmission temperature- post #1

Transmission reliability and shuttle sarcasm- post #33

Comments on shuttle reliability- several posts

 

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