High Transmission Temperature

[ptjones]

This Morning I checked temps again before starting and IT/69*F, WT/66*F and TFT/84*F. Today WT vs TFT is off by 18*F, yesterday it was off by 14*F and tomorrow I will check again before drop it off at FORD and see what the difference is with a hot ICE and FORD Scanner. I need more info at higher temps to see if this a matter of subtracting 16*F or removing 15% of displayed value.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Not much progress with FORD, They don't want to do anything if their aren't any codes. Did figure out that there can be a problem if you have scanners connected to both OBDII ports, can screw up the output. FORD says that my numbers are wrong, but they had both scanners plugged in at the same time. They were only getting 140's on short FWY drive which is about right for short drive. I've got about a 35mi. drive to do around lunchtime and hope to get the car and come back with it hot to have them check it. We will see.

 

Thanks

Paul

[ptjones]

I picked up MADMAX from FORD today and they say my ScanGaugeII numbers are High. After driving on the the FWY for awhile TFT got up to 180's as compared to 120's with FORD Scanner. To add to the confusion I keep putting my fingers on the Trans Cooler Lines and they are cool to the touch with OT of 70*F. It would be helpful if other members would check their Trans Coolant Lines after 30+ minute trips to see if their lines are cool or hot. Working on getting a new scanner to see if that makes a difference.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

jdbob Posted this: "The TorquePro/OBD Fusion equation for TFT is:

 

(((signed(A)*256)+B)*(9/8)+320)/10

 

I believe the proper MTH on the ScanGauge should be 000900500020"

 

I tried the number out and I believe that the TFT is to low now. This morning I took Pics of ScanGaugeII .

TFT WT IT

1. Temps before plugging in Heaters 107 92 87

2. 5min later changed MATH # 80 96 87

3. 1 hour later with heaters on 101 125 96

4. drove 2.4mi to work 100 154 98 OT 57*F

checked Trans with IR Thermometer 105*F

I will keep taking Pics and IR Therometer measurements and also checking Trans Cooler lines. I got 70*F on one and 73*F on the other.

Paul

 

[ptjones]

Here are the right numbers for the XGauge for Trans Fluid Temp for the ScanGaugeII Thanks to jdbob

 

TXD: 07E6221E1C

RXF: 0462051E061C

RXD: 3010

MTH: 000900500020

NAM: TFT

 

I have a few tests now and the results look to be within 10*F or better. I went 14miles on Fwy and TFT was 144*F, but cooler lines were only 82 and 85*F. I still don't think that is right, input line should be close to TFT. I will be going about 700mi. this weekend so I will have a chance to try it out.
:)

 

Paul

Edited March 11, 2015 by ptjones

[GrySql]

Paul,

My Dad used to say I had 'ants in my pants' because I couldn't sit still for very long.

I think I recognize another member of the club - you... ;)

[billford]

Here are the right numbers for the XGauge for Trans Fluid Temp for the ScanGaugeII Thanks to jdbob

 

TXD: 07E6221E1C

RXF: 0462051E061C

RXD: 3010

MTH: 000900500020

NAM: TFT

 

I have a few tests now and the results look to be within 10*F or better. I went 14miles on Fwy and TFT was 144*F, but cooler lines were only 82 and 85*F. I still don't think that is right, input line should be close to TFT. I will be going about 700mi. this weekend so I will have a chance to try it out.

:)

 

Paul

 

 

Some transmissions have a cooler bypass circuit to allow the transmission fluid to warm up without going to the cooler. Don't know if the Fusions have this, but it may explain the temperature difference.

 

When the car has been sitting overnight, is the coolant and transmission temperatures the same?

 

Edited March 12, 2015 by billford

[ptjones]

 

 

Some transmissions have a cooler bypass circuit to allow the transmission fluid to warm up without going to the cooler. Don't know if the Fusions have this, but it may explain the temperature difference.

 

When the car has been sitting overnight, is the coolant and transmission temperatures the same?

 

They seem to be. The bypass would need to be in the Transmission, I'm going on a long trip tomorrow so I will see how hot I can get the trans.

 

Paul,

My Dad used to say I had 'ants in my pants' because I couldn't sit still for very long.

I think I recognize another member of the club - you... ;)

My problem is that my TFT has been heating up faster now than it was a month ago. I only have 8Kmi. left on my warranty so if I'm having a problem I'd rather get it fixed before it runs out. :)

 

Paul

[TonyHzNV]

My problem is that my TFT has been heating up faster now than it was a month ago. I only have 8Kmi. left on my warranty so if I'm having a problem I'd rather get it fixed before it runs out. :)

 

Paul

So, you're saying you're at 92K miles already?

[ptjones]

So, you're saying you're at 92K miles already?

Yes, that is true. An interesting side note is my Dealer's SM won't let me talk to the Transmission Specialist which could have speedup the process. They aren't interested in giving you anymore information than necessary. Not being a Electric Dealer they don't have time to know how every thing works on a Hybrid Car. ;)

 

Paul

[TonyHzNV]

That sucks! Have you tried going over the SM's head, like to the GM? How far away is the closest Ford certified electric dealer?

[ptjones]

That sucks! Have you tried going over the SM's head, like to the GM? How far away is the closest Ford certified electric dealer?

No I haven't, I don't want to ruffle up anymore feelings. I'm embarrassed having the wrong TFT values, so I better know what I'm talking about before I bother them again. I have three Electric FORD Dealers about 25mi. away. I will probably need to go to one of them for my next problem. :)

 

Paul

[TonyHzNV]

I have three Electric FORD Dealers about 25mi. away. I will probably need to go to one of them for my next problem. :)

That's probably best. Take it to someone who knows something about these electrified vehicles. Good luck when you do! But like you said, have you ducks in a row.

Edited March 12, 2015 by TonyHzNV

[FordService]

No I haven't, I don't want to ruffle up anymore feelings. I'm embarrassed having the wrong TFT values, so I better know what I'm talking about before I bother them again. I have three Electric FORD Dealers about 25mi. away. I will probably need to go to one of them for my next problem. :)

 

Paul

Heading to an EV certified dealer for a second opinion is a great next step. Let me know when you choose a dealer you want to work with. :)

 

Meagan

[ptjones]

Thanks Meagen, I will if I need to. Now that I have ScanGaugeII Calibrated my max TFT has been 189*F on my trip. I will keep posting updates.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I made trip down to St Mary's,GA, little over 300mi. With a lunch stop in the middle. With OT from 47-54*F for the first half of the trip with Grill Covers on my CMAX , Max WT 231*F, TFT 189*F, Input cooler line 115*F and output line 95*F.
Second half of trip I took lower Grill Cover off, OT 57-70*F, Max WT 215*F and TFT 186*F .

It looks like I'm running 20-40*F hotter than other members, but not necessarily dangerously hot (220*F)

 

Coming back I opened up three 2" holes in lower Grill Cover and removed upper Grill Cover to lower WT from 220-231*F to 215-225*F. This also lowered TFT from 189*F to 185*F with OT 80*F. Last nite temps were in the 60-50*F coming home and TFT dropped to 175*F. The highest input Trans Cooler Line temps was 119*F, don't know what to make of it. :)

Paul

Edited May 25, 2015 by ptjones

[lolder]

Leave all the covers off.

[ptjones]

Transmission runs cooler with Grill Covers on, because you have to get WT above 215*F for shutters to open to allow air into Trans Cooler. With Grill Covers off ICE will have a hard time ever getting to 215*F WT and the shutters will never open. Turns out things are more complex than would think they would be. BTW I average about 49mpg on my trip driving on I-75, I-16 and I-75 for a total about 700mi. :)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I have 98Kmi on my CMAX now and the Trans has gone bad. I think it is prudent to have a warranty period for as long as you plan on owning the car. I heard replacing the Trans is about $6K. I have been monitoring my Trans Fluid temp since 90Kmi and it has been above 150*F on the FWY. Most members seem to be 150*F or below. I complained to my Dealer, but he said he couldn't do anything until it put out a code or made noise. Now 7kmi later it started to make a noise and 400mi after that I stopped at Rich FORD in Albuquerque, NM and they verified it was the Trans going bad. I was on my way to AZ and decided to continue on another 350mi to Williams,AZ. Five days later I started to go back home to GA, but decided to stop at Rich FORD again, because the noise had gotten much louder and I was afraid I couldn't make it home. I had 1100mi on the Trans since it started to make noise and I didn't want to get stranded out in the middle of no-where. Another benefit was Rich FORD had recently replaced a Trans in FFH so they had some experience which is very good. FORD is paying for an Explorer Rental until the car is fixed. I will have to drive back to Rich FORD to get it.

 

What I have learned from this is:

 

1. Make sure you don't let your car get out of Warranty.

 

2. If you do mostly City driving you may never have this problem, Trans gets warmer after extended high speed driving. I have 82% HWY driving.

 

3. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the trans pump impeller fails so Trans Fluid doesn't circulate thru cooler causing TFT to go up. I believe eventually debris wear teeth and bearings.

 

4. You can test your Trans cooler lines to see if you might have a problem by reaching down from the top of ICE compartment in front of Trans to the two cooling lines coming out of Trans. If one line is noticeably warmer than the other you are probably OK. If they are the same temp you probably have a problem. You can also use Digital IR Thermometer to do the same thing.

 

5. It may take up to 20Kmi to start to manifest symptoms after the pump fails.

 

Paul

Edited May 3, 2015 by GrySql

[acdii]

So were your grill covers removed prior to your visit, or were you still using them?

[ptjones]

So were your grill covers removed prior to your visit, or were you still using them?

I peeled them off when I got to the Dealer so they really didn't notice, They liked my wheel covers which I also took off and put in the car for safe keeping. I put the covers back on because the Trans ran cooler with them on. I did put 3-3" holes in lower cover to allow more air through, but still allow the temps to get over 214*F so the shutters would open. :)

 

Paul

[billford]

I have 98Kmi on my CMAX now and the Trans has gone bad.

 

Just wondering, has the trans fluid level and condition ever been checked? The owners manual calls for 150,000 miles to replace the fluid. I think it should be earlier than that.

 

Checking the fluid is not easy, there is no dipstick. I drained some out of the drain plug, took a sample, still clean. I changed mine anyway, since it only takes about 5 quarts.

 

I bought a Scangauge mainly to monitor the transmission and engine coolant. I never seen the trans exceed 138F and when it reaches 138F it takes at least 2 hours of driving to get there.

 

I think that since your trans fluid temp was too high and the cooler lines were cold, maybe the trans filter was restricted, limiting pump volume/fluid flow, to the cooler. Filter restriction can come from fluid breakdown or metal contamination.

 

The filter cannot be replaced without disassembling the trans. That's why I think its important to keep the fluid clean and the 150,000 fluid change interval is too long. And 5 quarts of trans fluid does not cost that much. Its just time consuming and messy.

 

If the trans is replaced, make sure they also replace the cooler rather than flushing it.

 

Good luck.

[ptjones]

 

Just wondering, has the trans fluid level and condition ever been checked? The owners manual calls for 150,000 miles to replace the fluid. I think it should be earlier than that.

 

Checking the fluid is not easy, there is no dipstick. I drained some out of the drain plug, took a sample, still clean. I changed mine anyway, since it only takes about 5 quarts.

 

I bought a Scangauge mainly to monitor the transmission and engine coolant. I never seen the trans exceed 138F and when it reaches 138F it takes at least 2 hours of driving to get there.

 

I think that since your trans fluid temp was too high and the cooler lines were cold, maybe the trans filter was restricted, limiting pump volume/fluid flow, to the cooler. Filter restriction can come from fluid breakdown or metal contamination.

 

The filter cannot be replaced without disassembling the trans. That's why I think its important to keep the fluid clean and the 150,000 fluid change interval is too long. And 5 quarts of trans fluid does not cost that much. Its just time consuming and messy.

 

If the trans is replaced, make sure they also replace the cooler rather than flushing it.

 

Good luck.

I don't think the Dealer checked Trans Fluid level because in 20min of running it on the FWY it didn't get hot enough to be a problem and it is a pain to get at. In hindsight It would have been a good idea to drain Trans and we would hopefully seen junk in the fluid. The only reason the filter would get plugged is if something went wrong in the Trans. Dealers are not authorized to open up the transmission. I'm guessing they won't replace oil cooler and I hope they at least flush it. I will be talking to them tomorrow. It's sound like they will have Trans by Thursday. :)

 

Paul

[acdii]

SOP to backflush a trans cooler when replacing the transmission. If there is an issue in the trans that causes metal to grind up, it could be fine enough to clog the filter, but not be detected in the fluid itself. Over 95K miles this is quite a possibility.

[ptjones]

Just got notice that MADMAX is ready and will be leaving tomorrow morning for Albuquerque to pick it up Wednesday afternoon. YA! I miss driving the car. :)

 

Paul