High Transmission Temperature

[ptjones]

I have just started to monitor my Transmission Fluid Temp(TFT) and I was able to get to 250*F on the FWY after about 30 minutes. Talked to my FORD SM he said that the operating temp should be 200-220*F so I got worried.

 

I just talked to a FORD AutoNation(Electric Dealer)SW who talked to Transmission Specialist who looked it up and said it(Transmission Electronics) will trip a code at 301*F and come up with a wrench symbol. I'm surprised that it could go that high without hurting something. I'm not really having any problems with the Transmission.

 

Paul

[Texasota]

Do you have grill blocking that could be a factor in the high temperatures?

[hybridbear]

I've never seen the transmission temp higher than what I observed on our road trip. During winter it's hard to get it up over 100 F even with full grille blocking.

[GrySql]

From the Service manual:

--

Transmission overheating:

• Clogged transmission fluid cooler or transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Bent or crushed transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Active grille shutter stuck in closed position

• System leaks

• Internal transmission concerns

--

I gave a quick look at the HF-35 diagnostic testing, these are some of the items mentioned:

• Connectors damaged or pushed-out terminals, corrosion, loose wires and missing or damaged seals
• TFT (Temp) sensor
• SOBDMC/ TCM

[ptjones]

As it turns out with the outside temp of 39*F I was able to get WT up to 230*F going uphill with the TFT at around 230*F. So I decided to pull off an off ramp and remove lower Grill Cover where (Trans Cooler is) to see what would happen. To my surprise TFT kept going up, but the WT stayed below 215*F so the shutters never opened. :)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

 

From the Service manual:

--

Transmission overheating:

• Clogged transmission fluid cooler or transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Bent or crushed transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Active grille shutter stuck in closed position

• System leaks

• Internal transmission concerns

--

I gave a quick look at the HF-35 diagnostic testing, these are some of the items mentioned:

• Connectors damaged or pushed-out terminals, corrosion, loose wires and missing or damaged seals
• TFT (Temp) sensor
• SOBDMC/ TCM

 

When the ICE is cooled off the WT and TFT are usually about the same. Did you notice anything about temps for TFT? :)

 

Paul

[lolder]

I wonder if all this is not connected. I cautioned a long time ago against the grill blocking because there are several radiators and the shutters are probably not controlled by the temperatures in all of them so that an acceptable temperature of ICE coolant might not be acceptable in the others. The troubleshooting item of active grill shutter malfunction kind of bears this out. I think 200 + transmission fluid temperatures are too high. There's a lot of data about this. Here's one: http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm

Edited February 20, 2015 by lolder

[ptjones]

I wonder if all this is not connected. I cautioned a long time ago against the grill blocking because there are several radiators and the shutters are probably not controlled by the temperatures in all of them so that an acceptable temperature of ICE coolant might not be acceptable in the others. The troubleshooting item of active grill shutter malfunction kind of bears this out. I think 200 + transmission fluid temperatures are too high. There's a lot of data about this. Here's one: http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm

Did you read the original

 

I have just started to monitor my Transmission Fluid Temp(TFT) and I was able to get to 250*F on the FWY after about 30 minutes. Talked to my FORD SM he said that the operating temp should be 200-220*F so I got worried.

 

I just talked to a FORD AutoNation(Electric Dealer)SW who talked to Transmission Specialist who looked it up and said it(Transmission Electronics) will trip a code at 301*F and come up with a wrench symbol. I'm surprised that it could go that high without hurting something. I'm not really having any problems with the Transmission.

 

Paul

And second Post."

 

As it turns out with the outside temp of 39*F I was able to get WT up to 230*F going uphill with the TFT at around 230*F. So I decided to pull off an off ramp and remove lower Grill Cover where (Trans Cooler is) to see what would happen. To my surprise TFT kept going up, but the WT stayed below 215*F so the shutters never opened. :)

 

Paul

If the Grill Cover isn't covering the Trans. Fluid cooler, how can it be the problem? Again Shutters don't open until 215*F at FWY speeds so if the WT doesn't get to 215*F the shutters don't open and air doesn't go through the Trans Cooler. It would appear that I need to cover up lower grill opposite side from Trans and Inverter Coolers are located. That way WT should rise a few degrees warmer and so shutters will open and hopefully trans temp will drop. BTW this is only a problem with HWY driving and not City. :)

 

Paul

post?

Edited February 20, 2015 by ptjones

[lolder]

Aren't there are two cooling systems; one for the electrical components which uses a coolant and one for the transmission fluid ? The 301 trip is for an electrical component, not the coolant and there is a different temperature for the transmission fluid (oil).

[ptjones]

Aren't there are two cooling systems; one for the electrical components which uses a coolant and one for the transmission fluid ? The 301 trip is for an electrical component, not the coolant and there is a different temperature for the transmission fluid (oil).

Where are you getting your info? The Transmission and the Inverter have separate cooling systems and the 301 trip temp is for the Transmission, Trans Fluid flash point is above 400*F. Where as the Inverter cooling system uses radiator coolant and would turn to steam before 301*F and electrical systems would be fried. ;)

 

Paul

[GrySql]

 

 

 

[acdii]

So that confirms what was said in other threads, when in EV there is no flow of transmission fluid. So the more you EV, the higher the temps can get, and the lower the lubrication happens.

[lolder]

Where are you getting your info? The Transmission and the Inverter have separate cooling systems and the 301 trip temp is for the Transmission, Trans Fluid flash point is above 400*F. Where as the Inverter cooling system uses radiator coolant and would turn to steam before 301*F and electrical systems would be fried. ;)

 

Paul

You said the transmission "ELECTRONICS" trips at 301 in post #1. That would have to be an electronic device temperature, not the coolant of course. There are some very high power devices in the electronics called Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors ( IGBTs ) and their temperature may be the 301 trigger. As you can see by the reference in my post #7 transmissions do not like fluid ( oil ) temperatures over 200.

[Texasota]

The FFH is a stunning engineering design that was built by teams of Ford engineers that know what they are doing. As one Ford engineer stated on this forum these Ford engineers are very smart. The ICE and the eCVT has undergone extensive testing in extreme cold and hot environments.

 

Only my opinion, but I find it equally stunning that anyone outside of the Ford engineering domain can stuff the grills full of pipe insulation and claim that they fully understand how this is impacting these complex systems. It is highly unlikely we fully understand the impact of grill blocking. If the engineers wanted the grills to be blocked they would have have designed the car that way.

 

Perhaps even more important is the question regarding grill blocking and warranty coverage. Should Ford be required to replace a failed transmission under warranty for a car whose grills have been blocked?

Edited February 21, 2015 by Texasota

[GrySql]

So that confirms what was said in other threads, when in EV there is no flow of transmission fluid. So the more you EV, the higher the temps can get, and the lower the lubrication happens.

Only in the HEV's, the PHEV's have an aux pump to lubricate the eCVT. The C-Max is a PHEV so should have the aux pump for the transmission.

 

When using EV for prolonged periods (long downhill grades) in the FFH It would seem to be good policy to blip the throttle every so often to start the ICE and get the eCVT lubricated.

Any damage done to the HEV's eCVT will be cumulative and the wear will start showing and the temps will slowly increase.

 

I think Lolder has been telling us this for a long time.

Maybe Ford Engineering will wise up and install that aux pump for the HEV vehicles too.

Edited February 21, 2015 by GrySql

[lolder]

I think the C Max is HEV or PHEV ( EnergI ).

[acdii]

Cmax is identical to Fusion, two versions, hybrid and Energi, so I really dont see that all Cmax would have the aux pump. As for grill blocking, in extreme cold, it will not harm the car, from what I recorded in temps, they are still below summertime readings with an unblocked grill. Blocking the grill in the summer though, I would not do.

[ptjones]

Here are the specs for MERCON LV Trans Fluid Link: www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/Product Data Sheet MERCON LV.pdf

 

The Flash Point is 421*F so FORD Engineers apparently felt it was safe to run it up to 300*F before triggering a Code and Wrench. It would appear that grill covers have little effect on TFT until 215*F and in fact might make it run cooler. By getting WT above 215*F which would cause shutters to open and allowing some air flow. Without the covers WT would very rarely get that high and the shutters would never open and allowing air to go through cooler. :)

 

Paul

Edited February 21, 2015 by ptjones

[GrySql]

I think the C Max is HEV or PHEV ( EnergI ).

Yes, my error. I'll fix my post.

[billford]

I have just started to monitor my Transmission Fluid Temp(TFT) and I was able to get to 250*F on the FWY after about 30 minutes.

 

 

Just wondering, what are you using to monitor it with?

[hybridbear]

As for grill blocking, in extreme cold, it will not harm the car, from what I recorded in temps, they are still below summertime readings with an unblocked grill. Blocking the grill in the summer though, I would not do.

My experience as well. Temps under the hood get hotter in summer with no blocking than in winter with blocking.

[ptjones]

Billford Wrote"

Just wondering, what are you using to monitor it with?

 

I have a ScanGaugeII and figured out what Codes to put in it with help of a friend. I gave them to hybridbear or I can post them.

Just wondering, what are you using to monitor it with?

 

My experience as well. Temps under the hood get hotter in summer with no blocking than in winter with blocking.

With the CMAX I run Middle and Lower Grill Covers and remove Top Cover when its hot. I only see about a 10 degree differential between IT and OT when it's over a 100*F, it will get hotter if you stop because you have no air flow. Not sure having covers or not make a difference if you're stopped. :)

 

Paul

Edited February 21, 2015 by ptjones

[lolder]

The original post quoted a tech as saying the "Transmission Electronics" gave a warning at 301. That is the inverters and other electronics cooled by coolant, not the transmission fluid. The coolant would not get to 301 so it must be measuring elsewhere perhaps right on the IGBT power controllers. I don't think the coolant or transmission fluid should get much above 215.

[Zathrus]

Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 4.27.13 PM.png

 

 

Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 4.27.48 PM.png

 

 

I have three questions in regards to second diagram in previous post:

 

1. Is the small radiator directly above the transmission cooler the inverter (electronics) cooler?

2. Do both the transmission and inverter coolers get their airflow from the lowest grill?

3. Does answers to 1 and 2 above apply to both FFH and C-Max?

 

Thanks.

[ptjones]

The original post quoted a tech as saying the "Transmission Electronics" gave a warning at 301. That is the inverters and other electronics cooled by coolant, not the transmission fluid. The coolant would not get to 301 so it must be measuring elsewhere perhaps right on the IGBT power controllers. I don't think the coolant or transmission fluid should get much above 215.

This information in this Thread is ONLY for Trans Fluid Temp and Trans Cooling System. This has nothing to do with Inverter cooling system! Transmission has it's own Control Module and when it detects TFT above 300*F it triggers a code and wrench symbol. Apparently FORD thinks it is safe to heat up Trans Fluid to 300*F unless someone can find different info from FORD.

 

 

I have three questions in regards to second diagram in previous post:

 

1. Is the small radiator directly above the transmission cooler the inverter (electronics) cooler?

2. Do both the transmission and inverter coolers get their airflow from the lowest grill?

3. Does answers to 1 and 2 above apply to both FFH and C-Max?

 

Thanks.

1. Yes. 2.CMAX Yes, FFH I believe grills aren't separated. 3.Yes :)

 

Paul