High Transmission Temperature

[ptjones]

Instead of installing grille covers to raise the coolant temp to get the grille shutters to open you could just turn on the A/C. Turning on air conditioning causes the shutters to open which will cool the eCVT and will drop the ICE coolant from around 190-195 F to around 180 F in the summer with no grille blocking.

Just thinking you should leave the Grill Covers on and turn on the A/C to allow some circulation of air through Trans Cooler, but also allow WT to go up some. :)

 

Paul

[Automate]

I'm thinking a dedicated duct not blocked by the shutters to supply air to the trans cooler would work best.

[ptjones]

I'm thinking a dedicated duct not blocked by the shutters to supply air to the trans cooler would work best.

That would be a great idea if there was any room between shutters and Trans Cooler. I'm working on air hose or duct to blow air on the Trans, the next best thing to do. It would work better if cooler was in front of shutters. Mechanically there is room, but it would take some work to pull it off. Blowing air on the Trans requires minimal work and if you drop 10*F that would be a descent improvement. I'm thinking if you can keep temps below 180*F you should be fine. IMO :)

 

Paul

Edited June 4, 2015 by ptjones

[hybridbear]

Unfortunately that doesn't help gas mileage, you really need WT to be in the 202-212*F for MAX MPG's. You should be able to have your cake and eat it too. :)

 

Paul

I don't like letting the WT get that high. Once it gets up that high the ICE behavior changes and it goes into the pulsing mode that has been discussed previously.

[ptjones]

I don't like letting the WT get that high. Once it gets up that high the ICE behavior changes and it goes into the pulsing mode that has been discussed previously.

I seem to remember you talking about it somewhere. Are you the only one with this problem? The thermostat is fully open at 202*F and it starts around 185*F. If you don't get WT above 215*F your shutters will never open( unless A/C is on) and allow cool air to the Trans Cooler, Trans is going to get pretty hot in about an hour's time with high OT. Trans temps only go down when shutters are open and it takes a long time to drop 10*F. As mentioned before, city driving isn't much of a TFT problem. :)

 

Paul

[Texasota]

If the shutters being closed are causing high temperatures in the transmission and possibly resulting in (or contributing) to transmission failures, then wouldn’t it seem likely that Ford would have issued a software programming change (via recall or TSB) to address this a long time ago? A software change like that would presumably be quite simple. Only speculation on my part, but since Ford has not made a software change I suspect the shutters have little or nothing to do with the transmission failures.

[ptjones]

If the shutters being closed are causing high temperatures in the transmission and possibly resulting in (or contributing) to transmission failures, then wouldn’t it seem likely that Ford would have issued a software programming change (via recall or TSB) to address this a long time ago? A software change like that would presumably be quite simple. Only speculation on my part, but since Ford has not made a software change I suspect the shutters have little or nothing to do with the transmission failures.

It has only been in the last few months that CMAX/FFH Trans have started to fail, with Odometers getting above 30Kmi. At this point I would imagine the numbers aren't big enough to force FORD to do something about it. RICH FORD is going to be checking with FORD why my Trans failed. A FORD Certified Electric Mechanic said that the FTF sensor is used to throw out a code when it gets to 301*F We also know that many members are running in the 150-160*F range and I'm currently getting up 192*F with brand new Trans. This would imply there is an issue with Trans Cooler, but it does work some because temps drop slowly if shutters are open. :)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Here is a Link to a site that has a graph comparing TFT to longevity of Trans: http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm It would appear that you want to keep TFT below 175*F. :)

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

Running the AC makes a noticeable difference in TFT. Yesterday we did a 90 mile one-way highway drive. With temps in the 80s & high humidity we ran the AC the whole way. The ICE coolant was slightly cooler (185-188 vs 191-195 without AC) but the transmission temp stayed about 30 degrees cooler. The TFT only got up to 149 F at its peak. With no AC & closed grille shutters it would get up to 175-180 F in this distance.

 

We still managed 57 MPGe & about 65 MPG if you don't count the electricity used. There was not a noticeable impact on MPGe from running the AC.

[lolder]

The AC being on may run the radiator cooling fan all the time. That sometimes stops at higher car speeds.

[ptjones]

The AC being on may run the radiator cooling fan all the time. That sometimes stops at higher car speeds.

Have you tested this out? :)

 

Paul

[lolder]

Turning the AC on will always start the radiator fan while stationary. I don't have anyway to know if it turns off at higher speeds, i suspect not. Maybe a scan-gauge can tell. I know the AC uses slightly more energy at low speeds but I cant tell if it's because the fan starts or there is less aerodynamic cooling of the surface of the car at slower speeds. The sunshine heat load on the outer surface of the car can be partially removed by airflow.

Edited June 28, 2015 by lolder

[hybridbear]

The AC being on may run the radiator cooling fan all the time. That sometimes stops at higher car speeds.

You are correct. I can see with Torque that the radiator fan is also running even while driving 65 MPH. Coming home the TFT peaked at 154 F and the coolant was around 188-191 F while using AC.

[lolder]

154 is reasonable. This illustrates how inter-related all of this cooling stuff is. I wonder if the transmission problems occurred in vehicles that the AC ( and therefore the radiator fan ) wasn't used as much?

 

About 45 years ago, I outsmarted myself. I modified the radiator fan circuitry of a 1968 Volvo to not run in "D". There was a thermostatic switch that still turned it on for higher engine temp. I blew the high pressure fuse plug out of the AC receiver dryer because I had also inadvertently disabled the fan from running when the AC was on. Fortunately it only cost me a new receiver-dryer and freon recharge.

 

I test dove a Nissan Leaf today. It was very refined. Ford doesn't seem to be selling Focus Electrics in FL.

Edited June 29, 2015 by lolder

[hybridbear]

154 is reasonable. This illustrates how inter-related all of this cooling stuff is. I wonder if the transmission problems occurred in vehicles that the AC ( and therefore the radiator fan ) wasn't used as much?

 

About 45 years ago, I outsmarted myself. I modified the radiator fan circuitry of a 1968 Volvo to not run in "D". There was a thermostatic switch that still turned it on for higher engine temp. I blew the high pressure fuse plug out of the AC receiver dryer because I had also inadvertently disabled the fan from running when the AC was on. Fortunately it only cost me a new receiver-dryer and freon recharge.

 

I test dove a Nissan Leaf today. It was very refined. Ford doesn't seem to be selling Focus Electrics in FL.

They don't seem to stock them at dealers anywhere except Cali & other west coast areas, Atlanta (because of the GA tax credit that is going away), Texas & New England. Any dealer that sells the Energi models could order one though. It's really a shame because the Focus Electric is superior to the Leaf in almost every way & costs LESS!!! It really stinks that Ford isn't interested in selling them. My theory is that Ford loses $5k or more on each one they build so they purposely build only enough to meet their CARB requirements and maybe enough to have some credits to sell if needed. They're basically running a test fleet with real world users. I really love the Focus Electric! I think it's the best vehicle I've ever had. I really hope Ford will make an EV version of the Fusion or Taurus with a range of 150-200 miles. The only real complaint we have with the Focus is that it's too small. We often are hauling people (4-5 in the car) and the Focus isn't very comfortable for that. I'd rather have a Focus Energi & a Fusion Electric. Edited June 30, 2015 by hybridbear

[murphy]

I'd rather have a Focus Energi & a Fusion Electric.

 

My ideal car would be a Fusion Electric based on an Energi with the engine and eCVT removed and the Tesla battery added. A design where range is prioritized over performance is needed. No one needs a car that can go 140 mph if they are not using it on a race track. Access to the Tesla superchargers would also be required since no one else is going to duplicate the infrastructure that Tesla has created.

 

The Tesla model S is missing a lot of cabin features that have been standard for years. For example: grab handles for us old people, coat hooks, a working navigation system, adjustable seat belts, a sun visor that is big enough to actually block the sun, an external radio antenna, a media console that doesn't need to be rebooted a couple of times a week, a windshield that doesn't block radio waves so E-ZPass transponders will work, etc.

[Hybrider]

... I'd rather have a Focus Energi & a Fusion Electric.

 

HB, I'm curious why you would want a Focus Energi, instead of both being electric, a Focus Electric and a Fusion Electric.

[hybridbear]

HB, I'm curious why you would want a Focus Energi, instead of both being electric, a Focus Electric and a Fusion Electric.

Road trips. We have driven 12,500 miles in 10 months with the Energi & 10,250 miles in 12 months with the Focus Electric. We drive the Focus just about as much as we can. We don't use the Energi for trips between 20 & 80 miles because on those trips we'd need gas in the Energi but only electricity in the Focus. We do enough road trips and other excursions that are > 80 miles that we've put 12,500 miles on the Energi in 10 months. There has only been 1 month that we didn't have any long trips where we needed gas in the Energi, February. That month we only drove ~350 miles in the Fusion & ~700 miles in the Focus Electric.

 

I reset one of the trip meters monthly in each car & I keep track of our use from the pics. This allows me to see miles, electricity use & gas use on a monthly basis.

Edited July 1, 2015 by hybridbear

[ptjones]

Here is my first step to trying to cool off TFT using 3/4"X6" aluminum L bracket and glueing them to bottom of Transmission. It will take atleast 3/4 hour FWY drive to see if it makes a difference. This also adds 54 square inches of surface cooling area.

High Temp Silicon Rubber glue and 6" X 3/4" Aluminum L brackets

Trans with no fins.

Trans with fins.

Paul

[hybridbear]

Today we did a 300 mile round trip. For the first 100 or so miles this morning we didn't need AC because it was cool enough outside. The TFT got up to 170 F. The coolant temp was about 193-195 F. Once we turned on the AC for the final 50 miles the TFT began dropping. It stabilized at about 145 F. In the afternoon for the return trip we used AC then entice distance as the outside temp was above 90 F. The TFT stabilized at 150-154 F for the drive home. The coolant temp was 188-192 F. The grille shutters were usually about 33-50% open. The radiator fan usually ran at 30-60% speed. Using AC definitely helps lower TFT.

 

We drove with strong crosswinds today and only managed about 47 MPGe, using 6.00 gallons to drive 297.3 miles total today.

[hybridbear]

I discovered something interesting regarding the TFT pump in the Workshop Manual today.

 

• This transmission has one simple planetary gear set. The planetary gear set is used to match the vehicle speed to the desired engine speed for maximum efficiency.
• The ring gear is connected to the transmission final drive though the middle gear on the transfer shaft. The ring gear rotates when the vehicle is moving.
• The planetary carrier is splined to the transmission input shaft and is connected to the engine. The carrier rotates with the engine crankshaft. The planetary carrier is also used to drive the hydraulic fluid pump.
• The sun gear is splined to the generator/starter.

Edited August 16, 2015 by hybridbear

[billford]

Here is my first step to trying to cool off TFT using 3/4"X6" aluminum L bracket and glueing them to bottom of Transmission. It will take atleast 3/4 hour FWY drive to see if it makes a difference. This also adds 54 square inches of surface cooling area.

High Temp Silicon Rubber glue and 6" X 3/4" Aluminum L brackets

Trans with no fins.

Trans with fins.

 

Paul

Interested to know if this helped in any way...

[lolder]

The planetary carrier is connected to the ICE so the pump only turns when the ICE is running.

[ptjones]

Interested to know if this helped in any way...

It appears to help about 5*F with comparing TFT before and after. I did drill some holes behind the Trans in the ICE cover to promote air circulation. :)

 

Paul

Edited August 17, 2015 by ptjones

[Tornike]

Hello all!
 

 I own ford fusion hybrid 2017.

 

Had some problem and replaced grille shutter, but  used old shutters motor.

when i look at my shutter it is working but not symmetrically. Like upper bigger one is still open ( not closed properly ) while the smaller one which is in front of small radiator is 100% closed.

i dont know it must be like this or not. Maybe they mad mistake while connecting the motor to new shutter.
 

when i start the engine, upper and lower both start to move but not symmetrically.

 

can you help?