Jump to content





Welcome to Ford Fusion Hybrid Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to Ford Fusion Hybrid Forum, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford Fusion Hybrid Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Posted Image
Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


Photo
- - - - -

High Transmission Temperature

Transmission

  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 687 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • Location:Atlanta area
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX SEL
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 19 February 2015 - 12:01 PM

I have just started to monitor my Transmission Fluid Temp(TFT) and I was able to get to 250*F on the FWY after about 30 minutes.  Talked to my FORD SM he said that the operating temp should be 200-220*F so I got worried.

 

I just talked to a FORD AutoNation(Electric Dealer)SW who talked to Transmission Specialist who looked it up and said it(Transmission Electronics) will trip a code at 301*F and come up with a wrench symbol. I'm surprised that it could go that high without hurting something. I'm not really having any problems with the Transmission.wink.png

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.








Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.


#2 OFFLINE   Texasota

Texasota

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 977 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northern Plains
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Current Vehicle:Ford Fusion S Hybrid
  • My Hybrid's Year:2015

Posted 19 February 2015 - 12:46 PM

Do you have grill blocking that could be a factor in the high temperatures?


  • jeff_h likes this

#3 OFFLINE   hybridbear

hybridbear

    Fusion Hybrid Fanatic

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,915 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northern Plains
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Focus Electric, 2013 Fusion Energi Titanium
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 19 February 2015 - 05:26 PM

I've never seen the transmission temp higher than what I observed on our road trip. During winter it's hard to get it up over 100 F even with full grille blocking.


Current Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm

315692.png

 

Previous Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

252543.png167422.png


#4 OFFLINE   GrySql

GrySql

    Fusion Hybrid Fanatic

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 3,168 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:So Cal
  • Current Vehicle:Yes
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:48 PM

From the Service manual:

--

Transmission overheating:

• Clogged transmission fluid cooler or transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Bent or crushed transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Active grille shutter stuck in closed position

• System leaks

• Internal transmission concerns

--

I gave a quick look at the HF-35 diagnostic testing, these are some of the items mentioned:

  • Connectors damaged or pushed-out terminals, corrosion, loose wires and missing or damaged seals
  • TFT (Temp) sensor
  • SOBDMC/ TCM

The Time Machine....
'13 FFH SE - Platinum White
Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#5 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 687 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • Location:Atlanta area
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX SEL
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:00 PM

As it turns out with the outside temp of 39*F I was able to get WT up to 230*F going uphill with the TFT at around 230*F. So I decided to pull off an off ramp and remove lower Grill Cover where (Trans Cooler is) to see what would happen.  To my surprise TFT kept going up, but the WT stayed below 215*F so the shutters never opened. :)

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#6 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 687 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • Location:Atlanta area
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX SEL
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 20 February 2015 - 12:10 PM

 

From the Service manual:

--

Transmission overheating:

• Clogged transmission fluid cooler or transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Bent or crushed transmission fluid cooler tubes

• Active grille shutter stuck in closed position

• System leaks

• Internal transmission concerns

--

I gave a quick look at the HF-35 diagnostic testing, these are some of the items mentioned:

  • Connectors damaged or pushed-out terminals, corrosion, loose wires and missing or damaged seals
  • TFT (Temp) sensor
  • SOBDMC/ TCM

 

When the ICE is cooled off the WT and TFT are usually about the same. Did you notice anything about temps for TFT? :)

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#7 OFFLINE   lolder

lolder

    Fusion Hybrid Addict

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 1,814 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Florida
  • Current Vehicle:2010 FFH 501A Trim
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 20 February 2015 - 01:32 PM

I wonder if all this is not connected. I cautioned a long time ago against the grill blocking because there are several radiators and the shutters are probably not controlled by the temperatures in all of them so that an acceptable temperature of ICE coolant might not be acceptable in the others. The troubleshooting item of active grill shutter malfunction kind of bears this out. I think 200 + transmission fluid temperatures are too high. There's a lot of data about this. Here's one: http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm


Edited by lolder, 20 February 2015 - 01:32 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 687 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • Location:Atlanta area
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX SEL
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 20 February 2015 - 03:40 PM

I wonder if all this is not connected. I cautioned a long time ago against the grill blocking because there are several radiators and the shutters are probably not controlled by the temperatures in all of them so that an acceptable temperature of ICE coolant might not be acceptable in the others. The troubleshooting item of active grill shutter malfunction kind of bears this out. I think 200 + transmission fluid temperatures are too high. There's a lot of data about this. Here's one: http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm

Did you read the original

 

I have just started to monitor my Transmission Fluid Temp(TFT) and I was able to get to 250*F on the FWY after about 30 minutes.  Talked to my FORD SM he said that the operating temp should be 200-220*F so I got worried.

 

I just talked to a FORD AutoNation(Electric Dealer)SW who talked to Transmission Specialist who looked it up and said it(Transmission Electronics) will trip a code at 301*F and come up with a wrench symbol. I'm surprised that it could go that high without hurting something. I'm not really having any problems with the Transmission.wink.png

 

Paul

And second Post."

 

As it turns out with the outside temp of 39*F I was able to get WT up to 230*F going uphill with the TFT at around 230*F. So I decided to pull off an off ramp and remove lower Grill Cover where (Trans Cooler is) to see what would happen.  To my surprise TFT kept going up, but the WT stayed below 215*F so the shutters never opened. :)

 

Paul

If the Grill Cover isn't covering the Trans. Fluid cooler, how can it be the problem? Again Shutters don't open until 215*F at FWY speeds so if the WT doesn't get to 215*F the shutters don't open and air doesn't go through the Trans Cooler.   It would appear that I need to cover up lower grill opposite side from Trans and Inverter Coolers are located. That way WT should rise a few degrees warmer and so shutters will open  and hopefully trans temp will drop. BTW this is only a problem with HWY driving and not City. :)

 

Paul

post?


Edited by ptjones, 20 February 2015 - 06:48 PM.

163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#9 OFFLINE   lolder

lolder

    Fusion Hybrid Addict

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 1,814 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Florida
  • Current Vehicle:2010 FFH 501A Trim
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:12 PM

Aren't there are two cooling systems; one for the electrical components which uses a coolant and one for the transmission fluid ? The 301 trip is for an electrical component, not the coolant and there is a different temperature for the transmission fluid (oil).



#10 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 687 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • Location:Atlanta area
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX SEL
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:57 PM

Aren't there are two cooling systems; one for the electrical components which uses a coolant and one for the transmission fluid ? The 301 trip is for an electrical component, not the coolant and there is a different temperature for the transmission fluid (oil).

Where are you getting your info? The Transmission and the Inverter have separate cooling systems and the 301 trip temp is for the Transmission, Trans Fluid flash point is above 400*F. Where as the Inverter cooling system uses radiator coolant and would turn to steam before 301*F and electrical systems would be fried. ;)

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#11 OFFLINE   GrySql

GrySql

    Fusion Hybrid Fanatic

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 3,168 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:So Cal
  • Current Vehicle:Yes
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 20 February 2015 - 07:33 PM

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 4.27.13 PM.png   423.5KB   3 downloads

 

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 4.27.48 PM.png   725.91KB   6 downloads

 


  • hybridbear likes this
The Time Machine....
'13 FFH SE - Platinum White
Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#12 OFFLINE   acdii

acdii

    Fusion Hybrid Legal Resident

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 8,174 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Harvard
  • Current Vehicle:2013 HyTi, 2013 Flex EbTi
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 20 February 2015 - 08:35 PM

So that confirms what was said in other threads, when in EV there is no flow of transmission fluid.  So the more you EV, the higher the temps can get, and the lower the lubrication happens. 


Drive Smarter, Not Faster

Posted Image
https://www.facebook.../12595DesertRat

#13 OFFLINE   lolder

lolder

    Fusion Hybrid Addict

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 1,814 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Florida
  • Current Vehicle:2010 FFH 501A Trim
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:24 PM

Where are you getting your info? The Transmission and the Inverter have separate cooling systems and the 301 trip temp is for the Transmission, Trans Fluid flash point is above 400*F. Where as the Inverter cooling system uses radiator coolant and would turn to steam before 301*F and electrical systems would be fried. ;)

 

Paul

You said the transmission "ELECTRONICS" trips at 301 in post #1. That would have to be an electronic device temperature, not the coolant of course. There are some very high power devices in the electronics called Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors ( IGBTs ) and their temperature may be the 301 trigger. As you can see by the reference in my post #7 transmissions do not like fluid ( oil ) temperatures over 200.



#14 OFFLINE   Texasota

Texasota

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 977 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northern Plains
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Current Vehicle:Ford Fusion S Hybrid
  • My Hybrid's Year:2015

Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:17 PM

The FFH is a stunning engineering design that was built by teams of Ford engineers that know what they are doing.  As one Ford engineer stated on this forum these Ford engineers are very smart. The ICE and the eCVT has undergone extensive testing in extreme cold and hot environments.

 

Only my opinion, but I find it equally stunning that anyone outside of the Ford engineering domain can stuff the grills full of pipe insulation and claim that they fully understand how this is impacting these complex systems. It is highly unlikely we fully understand the impact of grill blocking. If the engineers wanted the grills to be blocked they would have have designed the car that way.

 

Perhaps even more important is the question regarding grill blocking and warranty coverage. Should Ford be required to replace a failed transmission under warranty for a car whose grills have been blocked?


Edited by Texasota, 20 February 2015 - 10:39 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   GrySql

GrySql

    Fusion Hybrid Fanatic

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 3,168 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:So Cal
  • Current Vehicle:Yes
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 21 February 2015 - 12:11 AM

So that confirms what was said in other threads, when in EV there is no flow of transmission fluid.  So the more you EV, the higher the temps can get, and the lower the lubrication happens. 

Only in the HEV's, the PHEV's have an aux pump to lubricate the eCVT.  The C-Max is a PHEV so should have the aux pump for the transmission.

 

When using EV for prolonged periods (long downhill grades) in the FFH It would seem to be good policy to blip the throttle every so often to start the ICE and get the eCVT lubricated.

Any damage done to the HEV's eCVT will be cumulative and the wear will start showing and the temps will slowly increase.

 

I think Lolder has been telling us this for a long time.

Maybe Ford Engineering will wise up and install that aux pump for the HEV vehicles too.


Edited by GrySql, 21 February 2015 - 11:34 AM.

The Time Machine....
'13 FFH SE - Platinum White
Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#16 OFFLINE   lolder

lolder

    Fusion Hybrid Addict

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 1,814 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Florida
  • Current Vehicle:2010 FFH 501A Trim
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 21 February 2015 - 07:05 AM

I think the C Max is HEV or PHEV ( EnergI ).



#17 OFFLINE   acdii

acdii

    Fusion Hybrid Legal Resident

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 8,174 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Harvard
  • Current Vehicle:2013 HyTi, 2013 Flex EbTi
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 21 February 2015 - 10:48 AM

Cmax is identical to Fusion, two versions, hybrid and Energi, so I really dont see that all Cmax would have the aux pump.  As for grill blocking, in extreme cold, it will not harm the car, from what I recorded in temps, they are still below summertime readings with an unblocked grill.   Blocking the grill in the summer though, I would not do. 


Drive Smarter, Not Faster

Posted Image
https://www.facebook.../12595DesertRat

#18 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 687 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • Location:Atlanta area
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX SEL
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 21 February 2015 - 11:07 AM

Here are the specs for MERCON LV Trans Fluid Link:   www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/Product Data Sheet MERCON LV.pdf

 

The Flash Point is 421*F so FORD Engineers apparently felt it was safe to run it up to 300*F before triggering a Code and Wrench.  It would appear that grill covers have little effect on TFT until 215*F and in fact might make it run cooler.  By getting WT above 215*F which would cause shutters to open and allowing some air flow. Without the covers WT would very rarely get that high and the shutters would never open and allowing air to go through cooler. :)

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 21 February 2015 - 02:46 PM.

  • acdii likes this

163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#19 OFFLINE   GrySql

GrySql

    Fusion Hybrid Fanatic

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 3,168 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:So Cal
  • Current Vehicle:Yes
  • My Hybrid's Year:Decline

Posted 21 February 2015 - 11:32 AM

I think the C Max is HEV or PHEV ( EnergI ).

Yes, my error.  I'll fix my post.


The Time Machine....
'13 FFH SE - Platinum White
Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#20 OFFLINE   billford

billford

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 239 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • Location:Seattle
  • Current Vehicle:None
  • My Hybrid's Year:2014

Posted 21 February 2015 - 02:00 PM

I have just started to monitor my Transmission Fluid Temp(TFT) and I was able to get to 250*F on the FWY after about 30 minutes.  
 
 

Just wondering, what are you using to monitor it with?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Transmission

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy Terms of Service ·