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Differences in Cruise Control function


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59 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 05:06 PM

Do you have the hill button on the shifter turned on in this scenario? If you have the hill button off and are getting lots of regen and then the ICE turning on as an air pump this is a programming change compared to the 2013.

I have played with it both ways (hill button both on and off). But, your explanation of what happens with standard CC and ACC is now making me wonder how much regen I was really getting with the hill button off. The hill I have been experimenting with may not be steep enough to experience the full behavior you explained.  I'm curious now and will watch this closer on my next steep/long grade.  Thanks for the great explanation.  This is the part of your explanation that I want to watch for:

 

 

This is all regular CC can do when going down a hill unless you engage the hill button on the shifter. When you engage the hill button on the shifter the car will enable regen up to the 35 kW limit, but you still will not see the regen circle spinning.

 

Is there a way to tell how much kW regen I'm getting from one of the instrument panel displays?  Or is that only available with a scan gauge or similar tool?

 

 

Based on his later post, I don't believe he was referring to regenerative braking, but rather that the battery was just being charged.

Yes, that is correct. Using the "regenerative braking" term added confusion to the discussion.


Edited by Texasota, 25 December 2014 - 05:11 PM.








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#22 OFFLINE   Easy Rider

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 05:40 PM

It may be doing all it can do.

 

I must admit that I haven't had the guts to let the speed increase to +20 or more in any of my previous cars because I chicken out and either downshift or touch the brakes.

 

This may be why they added the "downgrade assist" function in the first place........since downshifting really isn't an option.



#23 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 11:35 PM

I suspect the "run away" effect will be much more noticeable when beginning at a slower initial speed. Md13ffhguy began his downhill tests with the CC set at 40 MPH and he described the car with traditional CC as speeding up to 54 MPH.

 

When I have experimented with this I had the CC initially set to 64 MPH. The braking effect of the aerodynamic forces at 64 MPH (as opposed to 40 MPH) is much larger and is probably a significant reason why I have not noticed the "run away" effect being as large as md13ffhguy has experienced.



#24 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:43 AM

Is there a way to tell how much kW regen I'm getting from one of the instrument panel displays?  Or is that only available with a scan gauge or similar tool?

Unfortunately this data isn't available on the instrument panel. 


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#25 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 08:54 PM

Do you have the hill button on the shifter turned on in this scenario? If you have the hill button off and are getting lots of regen and then the ICE turning on as an air pump this is a programming change compared to the 2013.

I had the oppurtunity recently to observe the behavior of my 2015 FFH doing down a very long 6% grade while having the standard cruise control (no ACC on my FFH S) set at 56 MPH.

 

I did not have the Grade Assist button fliped on (I am 100% positive that was the case).  As my FFH began the descent these were my observations:

 

  1. Without applying the brakes the HVB was being charged while descending the grade and it achieved the fully charged state rather quickly. I'm not positive what the charge state was at the beginning of the descent but I think it was around 2/3 full.
     
  2. While the HVB was being charged I did not get a spinning circle overlayed on the battery graphic and the MPHs did not increase to any significant degree during this phase.
     
  3. After the HVB charge indicator showed the battery was fully charged I then noticed I was getting ICE compression braking.  I watched the RPMs of the ICE during this phase and the RPMs continued to increase in a progressive fashion until the RPMs reached approximatey 4000 RPM. 
     
  4. At that point my FFH continued to slowly gain speed and when it hit exceeded 65 MPH I started applying the brakes to slow down and I presume that was 100% friction brakes since the HVB was fully charged.

The behavior of my 2015 does seem to be very different than what has been described in the above posts. This seems to indicate that the programming has been changed for the 2015 models.  It also makes me wonder if the GA button does anything over and above than what I am getting by the default behavior of my 2015 FFH?


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#26 OFFLINE   Easy Rider

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 09:45 AM

 It also makes me wonder if the GA button does anything over and above than what I am getting by the default behavior of my 2015 FFH?

It should.  It does in mine.

If it didn't, why have it there at all ??

 

Any chance you can go down that same "hill" again ?



#27 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

I had the oppurtunity recently to observe the behavior of my 2015 FFH doing down a very long 6% grade while having the standard cruise control (no ACC on my FFH S) set at 56 MPH.
[...]
The behavior of my 2015 does seem to be very different than what has been described in the above posts. This seems to indicate that the programming has been changed for the 2015 models.  It also makes me wonder if the GA button does anything over and above than what I am getting by the default behavior of my 2015 FFH?

I had a chance to log some highway miles on a recent day trip in my wife's car - the one that has exhibited the "run away" effect while the cruise control is set. I concluded that the effect does not seem nearly as significant at highway speeds, as your experience also suggests. Of course, this all depends on the grade of any downhill stretch. I suspect, as ER suggested, that enabling Grade Assist near the top may have kept you closer to your set speed better than the "default." I'd also be interested in your observations if you get the chance to run that downhill again.

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#28 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 09:57 PM

It should.  It does in mine.

If it didn't, why have it there at all ??

 

Any chance you can go down that same "hill" again ?

Unfortunately, I won't be back to that hill anytime soon.  Maybe again next year.  What would you want me to try when and if I return?



#29 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 10:02 PM

Unfortunately, I won't be back to that hill anytime soon.  Maybe again next year.  What would you want me to try when and if I return?


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#30 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 10:06 PM

I had a chance to log some highway miles on a recent day trip in my wife's car - the one that has exhibited the "run away" effect while the cruise control is set. I concluded that the effect does not seem nearly as significant at highway speeds, as your experience also suggests. Of course, this all depends on the grade of any downhill stretch. I suspect, as ER suggested, that enabling Grade Assist near the top may have kept you closer to your set speed better than the "default." I'd also be interested in your observations if you get the chance to run that downhill again.

 

Maybe there is a speed threshold at which the HVB charging and ICE compression braking behaves the same as if you flipped the GA button on.  In other words, at slower speeds you have to flip on the GA button to achieve aggresive charging and ICE compression braking and at higher speeds it occurs regardless of the GA button state.



#31 OFFLINE   Easy Rider

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 09:49 AM

Unfortunately, I won't be back to that hill anytime soon.  Maybe again next year.  What would you want me to try when and if I return?

Repeating the test with Grade Assist enabled at the top of the hill.

 

(Now to go back and read the original story; I don't remember it being used the first time.)



#32 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:38 PM

My F150 EB that I had would keep the speed within 5 MPH going down a mountain in Denver, and it had regular CC.  Seems odd to runaway in the FFH.


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#33 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 10:39 AM

From my post here:

 

I tried descending steep grades with only ACC and with ACC & Hill Assist. Both methods yielded the exact same results for regen & vehicle speed. When using ACC only the spinning regen circle would appear and the brake lights would illuminate. When using ACC & Hill Assist the regen circle did not appear and the brake lights did not illuminate. I mostly used the Hill Assist button, but in some situations where I wanted the brake lights to illuminate based on traffic around us I did not activate the hill assist button so that the brake lights would be on.

 

I used the cruise control to speed up slightly on the downhills where appropriate and it worked great. The ACC is very smooth at controlling vehicle speed during regen.


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#34 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 10:46 AM

From my post here:

What speeds were you traveling downhill?

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#35 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 10:59 AM

What speeds were you traveling downhill?

Most stretches had a speed limit of 65 so 65 MPH mostly. Some stretches had a speed limit of only 55 MPH so then I set the cruise to 55 MPH.


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#36 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 11:29 AM

Most stretches had a speed limit of 65 so 65 MPH mostly. Some stretches had a speed limit of only 55 MPH so then I set the cruise to 55 MPH.

Not surprising then. In my most recent testing, noted a few posts above, the runaway effect was not significant when starting a descent at highway speed. It is, however, surprising to start a descent at 30 mph, only to realize the car is eventually traveling at 50+ mph.

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#37 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 11:31 AM

Not surprising then. In my most recent testing, noted a few posts above, the runaway effect was not significant when starting a descent at highway speed. It is, however, surprising to start a descent at 30 mph, only to realize the car is eventually traveling at 50+ mph.


In the old FFH we had runaway on these exact same roads.

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#38 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 11:39 AM

In the old FFH we had runaway on these exact same roads.

That was without ACC, right?

Gotta like how you can recoup so much energy in that Energi, though!

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#39 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 02:45 PM

That was without ACC, right?

Gotta like how you can recoup so much energy in that Energi, though!

Correct, no ACC in the old one. I do like recovering so much energy in the Energi. It's really nice and contributed to that tank showing as 50+ MPGe on Fuelly going from Albuquerque to Phoenix. It involved climbing from about 5000 feet in ABQ up too 7700 feet at the peak in Arizona and then descending to about 1000 feet above sea level in Phoenix.


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#40 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 02:53 PM

Based on all of the interesting posts here it seems like at higher speeds the standard cruise control operates as if the Grade Assist button was turned on.  At lower speeds it seems like you will get the runaway effect unless the Grade Assist button is pressed. 

 

In other words, it seems like the GA button only affects the CC behavior at lower speeds.  It would be interesting to know what that threshold speed is where the CC slows the car down through HVB charging and compression braking.






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