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Battery Drain - Can't believe I'm the first ever


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   adamf

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:03 PM

After 100K miles of no issues with my OEM installed battery and basically trouble free driving, I got a wrench warning but after turning off the car the wrench went away so every time I took the car into to my Ford Dealer Service Center, without the wrench, they could not diagnose the issue.  Finally, I left the car running when I got the wrench and brought it in.  From visit service technician notes: Used IDS and pulled codes P0A7C and P0130.  Reprogrammed PCM to its latest calibration and retested it.  Tested fine.

 

Shortly thereafter, i found my car had a dead battery after sitting 2 days.  Took the car in after a jump and the Service guy performed an EEC test and I quote from my service record the following: "found P0130, CMDTC, KOEO, KOER passed.  Checked Oasis found TSB 10-17-11 found PCM to the latest calibration.  Performed PPZ DZ.  DZ1=Y, DZ10=Y, DZ11=Y, DZ12=N DZ13=N DZ23=N.  INAPECT connector no faults found.  Replaced 02S11.  Clear DTC and road test.  Passed."  I also had a battery test.  "Charging System passed, battery test failed only 75 CCA.  Recommend replacing battery.  Which I did.

 

Since then I have had to jump start my car 3 times, and replace the battery once more.  The technician indicated I got a bad brand new Motorcraft battery.  Last week, the battery was dead again after sitting less than 36 hours.  My car is currently in the shop again.  After performing some tests and calling the Ford Super Technicians for help, my dealer has come back to me asking me to approve additional costs of $650 to continue troubleshooting the drain.  Not $650 to fix the problem, but $650 to continue troubleshooting.  They have tried removing fuses one by one to isolate the issue.  They are apparently getting closer, but want me to pay for their troubleshooting.  They are basically saying, we will not do anymore work on your car until you authorize us to spend my money to fix the problem.

 

Two things are apparent... first of all, my OEM battery which I had replaced really didn't need replacing in the first place.  It was still perfectly good.  Second, Ford software upgrades have apparently started a drain on my battery and since the super technicians cannot give these guys instructions on how to solve the problem, they want me to pay for the research and development of a problem they caused.  So I came back with a fair and reasonable offer... since every future occurrence of this issue will have a known recommended solution, you are asking me to pay for Ford to troubleshoot the solution, I'll meet you half way... I'll give you $325 (half) and I think Ford should pay the other half, after all it is apparent a software upgrade caused this issue.  I also said, if you find it was a rodent chewed wire that caused this, like the service manager suggested a possible cause, I will pay the full $650.

 

If there is anybody monitoring this site and understands the frustration I am going thru and knows what to do, I would love to hear from you.  I wish I knew the phone number of the super technicians at Ford to discuss this matter with them directly.  Ford Motor company does not own the dealership, I get that.  The dealership does not want to work for free, I get that.  Ford has done something to my car, not the dealership, I get that.  Why can't Ford step up and admit they caused the problem and help solve this without me paying for troubleshooting time, just ask me to pay for a reasonable amount of fix it time to get this resolved.

 

Meanwhile, my dealership does not offer loaner cars, so I'm also out the continuing cost of a rental.  This just doesn't seem right, or fair. 


Edited by adamf, 03 November 2014 - 01:06 PM.

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#2 OFFLINE   1551retired

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 02:43 PM

Just got my 2013 back on Friday for the exact same problem!  They replaced my battery last year and now the same battery save message started coming on again.  They tested the battery and said it was good.  Then they did the so called "re-calibration" program change.  Then they sent me home with a battery reading 12.2VDC!  They are telling me that Ford tells them a battery voltage of 12.2 VDC is "normal" and actually said down to 11.9 VDC is acceptable!  I tried telling them 12.2 VDC on a rested battery is basically a 50% charge and 11.9 is a nearly dead battery.  I opened a case number with Ford Friday afternoon but haven't heard anything back.

 

I would imagine others on this forum are having this problem as well and will hopefully speak up.  I sure hope someone at Ford is monitoring this forum and will step up to the plate! 



#3 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 02:51 PM

I think you're making a big leap in blaming the software update on your problems.  That TSB was written over 4 years ago.  Surely you are not the first person to get the software update in 4 years.  If it was a software problem, it would have been discovered long ago.


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#4 OFFLINE   adamf

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 04:37 PM

I agree, I should not have been the first, that was why I used that language in my posting Topic.  I asked if there was a way to uninstall the software patch to see if this issue could be solved by removing the patch but of course a dealer service center would answer that question no. (Note:  When you install a patch on a PC, you can always uninstall it in Add/Remove Programs and this system is a MicroSoft based operating system).  I also think a lot of people do not use this forum who might be having this issue.  I see one person has already confirmed what I found, and that means I'm not alone.  I am alone when it comes to fixing this problem.  Ford Customer Service created a Case as an escalation for the Service Manager to pursue other Ford resources, as she said it.  I just don't think I should have to pay a Dealer Service Center to troubleshoot, with no confirmable solution implied in the added charges.  Are they going to come back to me after that money is spent and say, we need another $500 to continue troubleshooting?



#5 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 05:14 PM

Get our official Ford Service Rep involved.

 

Do you have an extended warranty?


Current Vehicles

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#6 OFFLINE   1551retired

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 07:36 PM

May I ask for the forum name of "our official Ford Service Rep".  I would like to send a PM.



#7 OFFLINE   jeff_h

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:24 PM

May I ask for the forum name of "our official Ford Service Rep".  I would like to send a PM.

 

Send a PM to 'FordService' user


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#8 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:49 PM

May I ask for the forum name of "our official Ford Service Rep".  I would like to send a PM.

Send a PM to our Ford Service Rep Rachel here:

http://fordfusionhyb...ce-rep/?p=88213


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Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#9 OFFLINE   VonoreTn

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:25 PM

I tried telling them 12.2 VDC on a rested battery is basically a 50% charge and 11.9 is a nearly dead battery.  I opened a case number with Ford Friday afternoon but haven't heard anything back.

 

I would imagine others on this forum are having this problem as well and will hopefully speak up.  I sure hope someone at Ford is monitoring this forum and will step up to the plate! 

 

You are probably right about the battery, but I use a $22 Harbor freight 100 amp load tester to evaluate my car batteries and my neighbors batteries, and my standard is I'm OK if I don't drop below 10.3 volts at 100 amps.  It has never failed me in finding a truly bad battery or an acceptable battery.   

 

http://i911.photobuc...zps071040ca.jpg


Regards from Knoxville, Tennessee area
FFH 502A package, purchased August 2009

#10 OFFLINE   VonoreTn

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:43 PM

After 100K miles of no issues with my OEM installed battery and basically trouble free driving, I got a wrench warning but after turning off the car the wrench went away so every time I took the car into to my Ford Dealer Service Center, without the wrench, they could not diagnose the issue.  Finally, I left the car running when I got the wrench and brought it in.  From visit service technician notes: Used IDS and pulled codes P0A7C and P0130.  Reprogrammed PCM to its latest calibration and retested it.  Tested fine.

 

This is not advice, I'm just saying what I would do.  Don't do this, I don't want to be responsible.  I would troubleshoot it myself.  I would disconnect the positive lead to the battery WITH EVERYTHING OFF, put an amp meter with a 10 amp range from the positive post to the cable I just disconnected.  If you turn the ignition to on, you could blow the 10 amp meter, since you would pull more than that much running a blower or just the fuel pump and injectors.  So don't turn it on.  If you want to be safer about it,  getting less information, put a volt meter across the positive terminal to the cable, if it reads ~12 volts, you have a drain.   Then start taking out each fuse one at a time until the drain stops.  This way you will find out which system is at fault.  It could be just a trunk light or something staying on.   Nothing should be draining the battery at over 20 ma.     On expensive German vehicles these days, if you are leaving it in at a second home for an extended period, they tell you to put a trickle float charger on it, because there are so many complicated systems that do drain the battery a little bit, on expensive cars.  But if you are using your car at least once a week, you should not need a float charger.  


Regards from Knoxville, Tennessee area
FFH 502A package, purchased August 2009

#11 OFFLINE   billford

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 12:56 AM

I think you're making a big leap in blaming the software update on your problems.  That TSB was written over 4 years ago.  Surely you are not the first person to get the software update in 4 years.  If it was a software problem, it would have been discovered long ago.

 

If you get a reflash done according to a TSB that was written a few years ago, you will get the latest current reflash, not the one that was available a few years ago when the TSB was written. There is a way to get the original program back when the car was built, but it takes a bit of work. Its not likely a dealer will want to do this because it can erase software fixes from the time the car was built until now.

 

I believe that it is not likely the software reprogram is the cause of the battery drain, but anything is possible. 


Edited by billford, 04 November 2014 - 01:01 AM.


#12 OFFLINE   FordService

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:54 PM

After 100K miles of no issues with my OEM installed battery and basically trouble free driving, I got a wrench warning but after turning off the car the wrench went away so every time I took the car into to my Ford Dealer Service Center, without the wrench, they could not diagnose the issue. ...


I'm glad to see that you were able to experience over 100 thousand miles without any trouble, adamf; those are my favorite kind of miles! Send me a PM with your VIN and I'll research available options. 
 

May I ask for the forum name of "our official Ford Service Rep".  I would like to send a PM.


How is your Fusion now, 1551retired? Send me a PM with your case number and I'll check it out.
 

Get our official Ford Service Rep involved.
...

 

Send a PM to 'FordService' user

  

Send a PM to our Ford Service Rep Rachel here:
http://fordfusionhyb...ce-rep/?p=88213


Thanks for suggesting me, hybridbear, jeff_h, and GrySql! You all rock!  :thumbsup:
 
Rachel

#13 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 09:10 AM

I agree, I should not have been the first, that was why I used that language in my posting Topic.  I asked if there was a way to uninstall the software patch to see if this issue could be solved by removing the patch but of course a dealer service center would answer that question no. (Note:  When you install a patch on a PC, you can always uninstall it in Add/Remove Programs and this system is a MicroSoft based operating system).  I also think a lot of people do not use this forum who might be having this issue.  I see one person has already confirmed what I found, and that means I'm not alone.  I am alone when it comes to fixing this problem.  Ford Customer Service created a Case as an escalation for the Service Manager to pursue other Ford resources, as she said it.  I just don't think I should have to pay a Dealer Service Center to troubleshoot, with no confirmable solution implied in the added charges.  Are they going to come back to me after that money is spent and say, we need another $500 to continue troubleshooting?

 

Only the MyFordTouch software is Microsoft based.  Your 2010 doesn't have MFT and even if it did, you got a PCM software update which has nothing to do with anything related to Microsoft.  Going backwards on a PCM update is a very difficult thing to do, not only technically, but potentially legally.  For example my 2014 FFH is included in the recall for a PCM updated that fixes an emissions non-compliance issue.  So if I ever asked the dealer to go backwards on the PCM calibration, it would essentially be asking them to put software into my car that would make it illegal to drive.

 

Besides if it was truly a PCM update that caused the battery drain, it would be as simple as disconnecting the PCM and monitoring the drain, which is almost certainly the first thing your dealer would have done.  Your problem must be something unrelated to the software update, so unfortunately you really are gong to have to accept paying for diagnosis or doing the diagnosis yourself.

 

Also note that 1551retired has a 2013 which has a completely different electrical system than your 2010, so it's not possible that he has the same problem as you.


Edited by Waldo, 05 November 2014 - 09:13 AM.

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#14 OFFLINE   adamf

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 11:17 AM

An update from the Post originator...  My Ford Dealer Service Manager called and said he is accepting my offer to pay half.  After opening a Case with Ford, then the Rep opening a Case with Ford, he said Ford is willing to pay half if I pay half.  Of course, this is just for troubleshooting time, not a solution.  Like so many people using a Service, the service provider says that will be $500 and you say OK.  Maybe you negotiate a few bucks, but if you say no, the Service is not performed and you are still left the problem.  So he says, will you pay $325 to continue troubleshooting, (a problem we will eventually find out is completely not my fault), and I say OK.  I want my car back and I want to get rid of the Rental Car....



#15 OFFLINE   adamf

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:15 AM

Issue resolved.  After 8 days in the shop I got my car back, and so far, the problem appears to be resolved.  The problem part was an electric audio face plate bezel #9E5T-18A802-FB.  So how do you suppose this part was suddenly causing a drain after 5 years of no problems?  Total Cost $940 plus tax, of which Ford agreed to pay half.



#16 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:33 AM

It 's the control panel for the NAV, entertainment and HVAC. I guess something failed in it or something damaged it.



#17 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 09:37 AM

Yep, that's the piece behind all the buttons, so perhaps over all that time something like water, coffee, dust or whatever worked it's way back into the circuit board.






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