10 years down the road

[Twarren6]

Just curious because these Hv batteries are so new in these cars and other makes and models. It seems to be really expensive to replace the Hv battery. What will be thought of these cars in 10 years when the battery could give out at any moment? Kinda hard to sell a car that will need a 7 -10 k dollar battery soon. That will be more than the car is worth at that point. Are cars getting to the point of all other electronics as in they are throw away technology?

[acdii]

With more and more hybrids on the road, there will eventually be companies that will refurbish the HVB packs, much the same way engines and transmissions are done. The problem right now is the availability of core units. Until there are enough junked cars, to where the HVB can be stock piled, and an after market supply of the computer modules and cells become available, the only replacements will be from the dealers. Reliability on HVB is extremely high due to the computer programming that protects the batteries from over/under discharge and over temps. There are still first Gen Prius out there on original batteries, thats going on a decade or more now. I think the 2nd Gen Prius came out in 2005, so thats near a decade now too. There have been hybrid cabs with well over 300K on them still going strong.

[Griswald]

Don't worry, someone will have it figured out if there is a market. Thats the beauty of capitalism.

 

I have a co-worker that has a connection for Prius batteries. $500 to refurb the pack. Hes on his second, at over 300k miles. They work fine, so will ours.

[Griswald]

Wow, we think alike!

[jeff_h]

I think the 2nd Gen Prius came out in 2005, so thats near a decade now too. There have been hybrid cabs with well over 300K on them still going strong.

 

Actually 2ng Gen Prius was 2004-2006, mine was a 2005... co-worker still owns it and drives it most days so I see if in the parking lot at work... it is now up to 210k miles and there has never been any issue with the HVB.

 

And let's not cut the 2010 FFH short, now owned by family friend, I changed the oil on that a few weeks ago and that's about to hit the 180k mark, no issue at all with the HVB and zero issues since she got it from me at 145k miles.

Edited June 3, 2014 by jeff_h

[acdii]

I think 2nd gen Prius ran until 2009 or 10. I had a 2007 and it was 2nd gen. The new body style marks the 3rd gen. They added a crease to the sides. Still ugly though.

[hybridbear]

The first gen Escape Hybrid has also had very few battery failures. Battery replacement is not very likely.

[hybridbear]

With the way the battery SOC is computer controlled a loss in capacity will have a minimal effect. CR or another automotive journal has tested this with old Prii and has found that battery capacity loss is minimal and fuel economy decline is minimal with age.

 

Battery replacement is only needed if the battery completely fails. That is very unlikely. With Battery Electric Vehicles you will likely see more replacements. BEVs use a larger portion of their total capacity which will lead to capacity loss more quickly than in a hybrid. Also, when the HVB is your only source of motive power you become much more sensitive to capacity loss.

[Easy Rider]

 

Battery replacement is only needed if the battery completely fails. That is very unlikely.

 

The battery is made up of hundreds of individual cells.

Replacement is needed when just a few of THEM fails.

 

Not only is that likely but pretty much inevitable with age.

 

The good news is that the cost of replacement batteries, at least for those hybrids that have been around long enough to need it, is coming down fast.

The Prius batterys can be had for around $2500 now, IIRC.

Also "premature" failure is typically covered by a 7 to 10 year warranty.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Easy Rider

[acdii]

Eventually one day there will be places that will refurbish used HVB. Usually when a pack goes bad, it is only one or a small handful of cells that actually fail, so they will disassemble the pack, put each cell through a test and replace the bad ones. This will do a couple things, have a ready supply of replacement packs for various cars, keep waste down to a minimum, and provide income for people.

[Easy Rider]

And only experience will tell whether or not that is a cost effective thing to do.........when you figure in that you might have to have it done again every year or so.....might.

[Texasota]

One notable exception on battery reliability has been the Honda Civic. Here is a excerpt from the April 2014 (page 91) issue of Consumer Reports:

 

 

Most hybrid gas/electric cars have proved reliable, with a notable exception: the Honda Civic Hybrid. Last year we blasted the 2009 Civic Hybrid after almost one in five owners told us the hybrid battery had needed replacement. In this year's survey the results were much worse.

 

The failure rate of the 2009 Civic Hybrid's batteries has risen to almost 30 percent, and the 2010s' failure rate jumped from 12 to 32 percent, the worst among any model year. For 2009s and 2010s, that's almost one in three owners experiencing a failure-an astonishing replacement rate for any part on any car. The equivalent for the Toyota Prius? A fraction of 1 percent.

...

For the first time we're getting a sense of the lifespan of a Prius hybrid battery. Our latest survey sees 12 and 11-year old Prius batteries (2002s and 2003s) with a replacement rate of 5 and 4 percent, respectively. Overall, the Toyota Prius remains among the most reliable of all cars.

[Barsoom]

I'm thinking that I will change my past behavior of driving a car for 15 years, and instead trade my FFH in aftter 7 or 8 years, so that the dealer has to deal with the end of life batteries.