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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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AWD Hybrid Sedans


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33 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   jsolan

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:42 PM

Doing a quick google search for AWD Hybrids only turns up a few luxury cars out of my price range.  Is there a technical limitation for putting all wheel drive in a hybrid drivetrain?

 

I'm really hoping that my next vehicle will be another hybrid, but I'd really like an AWD vehicle too.  That purchase is likely several years away, but it would be nice to know if any automakers are working on this.  Or maybe they exist and I just don't know how to search?









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#2 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:27 PM

Not really practical. Tesla is planning AWD by putting an electric motor on each axle I believe. Isn't the Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD?
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#3 OFFLINE   jeffo65

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:51 PM

Subaru makes a hybrid 4x4, as does Toyota, Porsche, GM, Chevrolet, Lexus and Nissan I think. Most are SUVs, but GM/Chevy make a light Hybrid Truck. The trucks gain about a 10% mpg increase over their gas counterparts.
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#4 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:44 PM

Not really practical. Tesla is planning AWD by putting an electric motor on each axle I believe. Isn't the Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD?


Don't they have this already for the Model S or am I getting this mixed up with the Model X ?
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#5 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:48 PM

Don't they have this already for the Model S or am I getting this mixed up with the Model X ?

Officially just Model X I think but rumors are that AWD will be offered on the Model S as well.
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#6 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:49 PM

Subaru makes a hybrid 4x4, as does Toyota, Porsche, GM, Chevrolet, Lexus and Nissan I think. Most are SUVs, but GM/Chevy make a light Hybrid Truck. The trucks gain about a 10% mpg increase over their gas counterparts.

most of those are "mild" hybrids though which don't usually justify the cost in fuel savings. I think only the Highlander is a full hybrid with AWD.

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#7 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:58 PM

Officially just Model X I think but rumors are that AWD will be offered on the Model S as well.


Yep I just asked my friend Google and there are rumors on the tesla forum that maybe in 2015 they will add AWD for the S after X is ready.
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#8 OFFLINE   marklally

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:48 AM

I have thought for many years that adding all wheel drive to a front wheel drive full hybrid would be far more practical than with drive shafts, differentials and the associated clutches and such; in a hybrid the second drive axel would be totally electric of course and only kick in when traction was poor ( much like Ford's present all wheel drive system). It would seem to me that this would be the MOST practical way to design a hybrid pick-up truck, the front axel in the truck would be electric though. I would be surprised if this is not the arrangement when Ford does indeed produce a hybrid truck. 


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#9 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:46 AM

I have thought for many years that adding all wheel drive to a front wheel drive full hybrid would be far more practical than with drive shafts, differentials and the associated clutches and such; in a hybrid the second drive axel would be totally electric of course and only kick in when traction was poor ( much like Ford's present all wheel drive system). It would seem to me that this would be the MOST practical way to design a hybrid pick-up truck, the front axel in the truck would be electric though. I would be surprised if this is not the arrangement when Ford does indeed produce a hybrid truck. 

 

That's how the Lexus RX Hybrid AWD works.  

 

The Ford Escape Hybrid was available with AWD, but it was just the conventional driveshaft arrangement.  The thing is, if you're buying a hybrid for fuel efficiency, why would you want AWD which just consumes extra fuel?  If the FFH was available as an AWD with the same AWD system as the base Fusion, it would probably have an EPA rating around 42mpg.  People would compare the 42 to 47 and say that's way too much, I'll stick with the FWD.


Edited by Waldo, 21 March 2014 - 06:48 AM.

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#10 OFFLINE   kuzzi

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:55 AM

Expanding on what Waldo said, for fuel efficiency AWD is not the way to go. To get the very best efficiency you should have only one driven wheel and no diff. This would be unsafe, so it does not exist (except motorcycles). Even adding an electric motor to each corner of the car to drive a specific wheel would be overkill as whichever wheels were driving, they would have to pull the dead weight of the other motors.

The luxury and supercar markets are adding these hybrid drivetrains so the electric motors can act as a supplement to the ICE when it is not providing its best power (as in takeoff, low rpm, low torque, and gear shifting). The new hybrid Mclarens and Ferraris are like this. Same with Audi's LeMans prototype (R18 TDI e-tron Quattro). I can also see this as being very beneficial to rock crawling and towing applications.

Edited by kuzzi, 21 March 2014 - 07:00 AM.

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#11 OFFLINE   Ted Swing

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:29 PM

Supposedly the Tesla won't lose MPGe in the upcoming AWD Model S, but definitely a hybrid would lose a little.


Edited by Ted Swing, 21 March 2014 - 01:34 PM.

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#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:52 PM

My daughter's boy friend has a Hybrid Mariner AWD and it gets a few MPG less than my FEH. I was able to get 41mpg city with my FEH.

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As you can see the FFH AWD got 10mpg better city than non hybrid AWD. It would be nice if Ford would do it again. :)

 

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#13 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:52 AM

Someone was listening...

 

Check out this article from GCR.

 

They aren't hybrid sedans, but they are still hybrids. Even if mostly "mild" hybrids.


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#14 OFFLINE   kuzzi

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:32 PM

Fully loaded Cayenne Diesel AWD cost less than the hybrid



#15 OFFLINE   dalesky

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:37 PM

Diesels are another matter though, and quite prevalent in other countries, as we know. Even the best diesel sedans don't equal the mileage we get, on average with the FFH. 


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#16 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:44 PM

Diesels are another matter though, and quite prevalent in other countries, as we know. Even the best diesel sedans don't equal the mileage we get, on average with the FFH. 

 

I was just reading this article comparing hybrids to diesels.  The author seems to have a strong preference for diesels:

 

http://www.digitaltr...might-surprise/


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#17 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:55 PM

The picture at  the top of the article is a Fusion Energi.


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#18 OFFLINE   Ted Swing

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:42 PM

 

I was just reading this article comparing hybrids to diesels.  The author seems to have a strong preference for diesels:

 

http://www.digitaltr...might-surprise/

A lot of what he says is true (except for claiming that the Passat is a better car than a FFH). He does come across as biased in favor of diesels, though. Diesels are better for high speed highway driving. Hybrids are better for city driving and stop-and-go, moderate speed highway driving. You also don't have to pay as much for gas as diesel in the US.

 

The problem with getting a diesel in the US, IMO, is that there aren't many options in the midsize class. In the luxury segment there are more diesel options (BMW, Audi, etc.) and the cost of diesel compares more favorably to premium gas. However, for a normal midsize, I think Passat's the only option in the US until the Mazda 6 diesel arrives (am I missing any?). I don't consider the Passat to be equal to the FFH. If they made the Ford Mondeo Diesel available in the US, I bet Ford would win some converts, but it's probably not worth the investment given the size of the diesel market in the US.


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#19 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:59 PM

Diesels are better for high speed highway driving. Hybrids are better for city driving and stop-and-go, moderate speed highway driving. You also don't have to pay as much for gas as diesel in the US.

 

One thing I think the author neglected to mention in his comparisons is the additional cost and inconvenience of the diesel exhaust fluid (urea) that is seems to be required by these modern diesels. I am no expert on diesels so I don't know if all of them require it or not:

 

http://blogs.cars.co...-urea-cost.html


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#20 OFFLINE   Ted Swing

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:57 AM

 

One thing I think the author neglected to mention in his comparisons is the additional cost and inconvenience of the diesel exhaust fluid (urea) that is seems to be required by these modern diesels. I am no expert on diesels so I don't know if all of them require it or not:

 

http://blogs.cars.co...-urea-cost.html

The upcoming Mazda 6 diesel is apparently clean enough to not require it - something about the unusual compression burning up more of the emissions. However, it has been repeatedly delayed (apparently the power was not considered good enough for the American market). I was originally considering it against the FFH, which I ordered in August. Back then it was to be released any month. I'm glad I chose the FFH, because the Mazda 6 diesel still doesn't have a release date.

 

I believe the rest of diesels sold in the US require the urea system, though.


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