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Understanding the Power Flow screens

FFH power flow series hybrid parallel hybrid ICE electric motor Fusion Hybrid how does it work?

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5 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 02:47 PM

I'm hoping to better understand how the FFH powertrain works with the power flow screens.

 

Below is a pic with the different powertrain options of how the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive operates

Screenshot2013-12-06125316_zpsd5ee3831.p

 

Engine & Motor drive for HSD appears to be Hybrid Drive on the Ford Power Flow screen as shown below

IMG_2683_zps15d86f81.jpg

 

This doesn't seem to be very common in the FFH. Here the FFH has blue flow from the battery to other, but aside from that the HVB is isolated. There is white flow from fuel to engine to drive and from engine to electric motor. There is blue flow from electric motor to drive.

 

HSD's Engine Drive + Charge should be shown on the Power Flow screen as white flow from fuel to engine to drive. There should also be white flow from engine to electric motor. And then there should be blue flow going from electric motor to battery. In this scenario there would be no blue line connecting electric motor to drive. Has anyone seen this? I haven't yet. Granted, I've only driven a few hundred miles in the new FFH which has these screens and I do have to look at the road at least occasionally while driving, but I haven't seen this yet.

 

Here's another set of Toyota powertrain options for HSD

Screenshot2013-12-06125348_zps3f9cb7e9.p

 

Engine & Motor drive + Charge should correspond to Charging HV Battery on the FFH Power Flow screen.

IMG_2680_zps43d72ca4.jpg

 

Here you have blue flow from the electric motor to the battery. There is also blue flow from the electric motor to drive. There is white flow from fuel to engine to drive and from engine to electric motor. This seems to be one of the most common powertrain options chosen by the FFH computers.

 

Another HSD option from the pic above is Full Power. This should correspond to Hybrid Drive on the FFH screen as shown below. In this scenario you have blue flow from battery to electric motor to drive, white flow from fuel to engine to drive and white flow from engine to electric motor. This is also known as assist because in this scenario the electric motor assists the ICE in accelerating or propelling the vehicle. In this scenario the ICE is on but is discharging.

IMG_2684_zps816d845e.jpg

 

While the Toyota display doesn't differentiate MG1 & MG2 as in the graphics above, it does show enough arrows that you can discern what is happening with MG1 & MG2. Below is a pic of the different displays on the Toyota screen with the names of the powertrain modes that correspond to some of the aforementioned options. The FFH display also shows enough to infer their operation.

Screenshot2013-12-06133612_zps8e19a372.p

 

One solid conclusion is that while the FFH powertrain doesn't have MG1, MG2 and the ICE on the same line like in the Toyota HSD system (click here for more info about how HSD is designed and operates), it works roughly the same. It seems that the FFH often runs the ICE both to power the wheels and to send electricity from MG1 to MG2 to power the wheels. I didn't know this before because our old FFH didn't have MFT and thus didn't have the Power Flow screen.

 

Four questions arise from this.

  1. Does the FFH do an equivalent of HSD's Engine Drive + Charge?

  2. Why does the FFH not show Engine & Motor Drive (with the HVB isolated) as often as the Prius does? Will this have a negative impact on the FFH battery pack life? The Prius seems to very frequently show this mode. The FFH very rarely shows it.

  3. How will the HAH compare? Honda says that their ICE runs as a generator and isn't connected to the wheels. This would mean that its Power Flow screen would show white flow from fuel to engine and from engine to electric motor. There would also be blue flow from electric motor to drive. According to what Honda has published, the majority of the time in the HAH you wouldn't see white flow from engine to drive like we see in our cars.

  4. Has anyone seen their FFH display what is described in question 3 like Honda has said the HAH works? It doesn't appear that the Toyota system can operate this way because MG1, MG2 and the ICE are on the same line.


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#2 OFFLINE   Toz

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:44 PM


  1. Why does the FFH not show Engine & Motor Drive (with the HVB isolated) as often as the Prius does? Will this have a negative impact on the FFH battery pack life? The Prius seems to very frequently show this mode. The FFH very rarely shows it.

 

one big factor to remember when compairing the FFH to the Prius and how the batterys are charged and discharged, the FFH has lithium ion and Prius has a NiMH battery


Edited by Toz, 06 December 2013 - 05:49 PM.

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Ordered: 21Oct13

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Est. build date: Week of 11 Nov 13 

Window sticker: 7 Nov 13

Build date: 13 Nov 13

Est. Delivery Date:13 Dec 13

Delivery date:!3 Dec 13

 

 


#3 OFFLINE   Toz

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:46 PM

edit


Edited by Toz, 06 December 2013 - 05:46 PM.

14 Sunset HyTi

ACC,Bliss, lane keeping,

heated steering wheel,

heated and cooled seats with 10 way Passenger seat

rear inflatable seatbelts

Soft Ceramic interior

Ordered: 21Oct13

Vin:25OCT13

Est. build date: Week of 11 Nov 13 

Window sticker: 7 Nov 13

Build date: 13 Nov 13

Est. Delivery Date:13 Dec 13

Delivery date:!3 Dec 13

 

 


#4 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:23 PM

Battery tech between the cars is so far apart and uses totally different charge cycles.  Hook a Lion to a NiMh charger and it will go POOF if not outright burst into flames.  That alone tells the difference between the new Ford system and the old Ford/Toyota HSD systems.  The first gen Ford and 2/3rd gen Toyota systems were very similar to each other, using nearly the same drive system, same battery, etc. the only standout difference is the Ford went up to 45 MPH on EV only, and had a different charge cycle where the battery charge was at 50% majority of the time.

 

It was also MUCH easier to drive to get EPA in, same with the Toyota.  


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#5 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:03 PM

Clarification from Ashley: if the line from "Engine" to "Drive" shows movement then the ICE is sending torque to the wheels and if the white line is there but not moving then the ICE is only spinning the generator and isn't sending torque to the final drive to the wheels.


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Current Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm

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2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

252543.png167422.png


#6 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:31 PM

I have seen where I am cruising and the display showed only the "engine on due to cabin heating" displayed, so that makes sense. I was only doing 25 MPH, so it appears the generator was providing enough power for straight up EV.  As I turned to climb a hill then the display changed to include "due to acceleration". 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: FFH, power flow, series hybrid, parallel hybrid, ICE, electric motor, Fusion Hybrid, how does it work?

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