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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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Just about everything you ever wanted to know about the FFH battery


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44 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   MaineFusion

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:06 AM

I found two extremely informative forum threads about the FFH battery and keeping it charged. The first is on the Ford Fusion Energi forums and the second is on the Ford C-Max Energi Forums.  The second thread is especially informative with a link to Amazon with a recommended battery charger.  I'm thinking the advice on these threads will not only extend the life of the 12v battery, but maybe help some folks who keep having issues with this battery.

 

http://www.fordfusio...discharge-plot/

http://fordcmaxenerg...lt-battery-soc/

 


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#2 OFFLINE   B25Nut

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:53 AM

I just placed an order for that charger.  The BS message is the only remaining issue that I have with my FFH now.  Maybe Ford will have this problem solved for the 2015 model.  In reality it's a minor inconvenience.  Having my music play until I open my door isn't that important.  The frustrating thing is that keeping the 12v charged is one of the basics of automobile design.  It's not rocket science.

One question:  should the battery be charged using the terminals under the hood or should it be hooked up directly to the battery?



#3 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:31 PM

One question:  should the battery be charged using the terminals under the hood or should it be hooked up directly to the battery?

It's safer to use the terminals under the hood because a spark there would not hurt anything (Unless you have a gasoline leak up there).

 

The battery is vented under the car so there "shouldn't" be any hydrogen in the battery compartment.  However any spark can set off hydrogen and it is a fairly closed off space.


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#4 OFFLINE   MaineFusion

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:19 PM

I just placed an order for that charger.  The BS message is the only remaining issue that I have with my FFH now.  Maybe Ford will have this problem solved for the 2015 model.  In reality it's a minor inconvenience.  Having my music play until I open my door isn't that important.  The frustrating thing is that keeping the 12v charged is one of the basics of automobile design.  It's not rocket science.

One question:  should the battery be charged using the terminals under the hood or should it be hooked up directly to the battery?

 

Let us know how it goes.  I've put it on my Amazon wishlist and will probably order it in the near future.  My lawn tractor's battery will also appreciate the charger.


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#5 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:37 PM

It's safer to use the terminals under the hood because a spark there would not hurt anything (Unless you have a gasoline leak up there).

 

The battery is vented under the car so there "shouldn't" be any hydrogen in the battery compartment.  However any spark can set off hydrogen and it is a fairly closed off space.

Interesting info here, strange too - thanks.

This just about puts everything I ever knew about a standard auto battery charging principles in the trash can.

These hybrids really are different.

 

I have a Schumacher Digital battery charger with lots of modes and readouts.

I just connected it to the under-hood positive and negative posts.

The initial readouts were at 63% and 12.4 volts, and we just got back from going to dinner.

I have it charging right now.

I looked at the Engineering Mode the other day and it was at 13.4 with the ICE running and charging.

 

I think I'll top this battery up more often.  Maybe the ICE startup charging will be easier now with the 12v battery fully charged.

These are becoming more like the Plug-in Energi models everyday, with a bigger trunk!

 

You know, this really shouldn't be this way, a car that can't properly charge it's 12v battery, then have a tiny amp load battery installed as OEM is somewhat short-sighted.

I am starting to see why the OEM battery is so small, the HVB system that has to charge it is under-engineered.

Who in the world would buy this car if they were told they had to buy a battery charger and do this themselves every 6 months, or have it charged at every Dealer service.

 

Of course, in my case, it could have been be topped off perfectly, I've been at the Dealer every month since I've owned it. 

I should have been having them charge it as standard procedure, like the air pressure in my tires.

Ford, you've got to be kidding... This is nuts.

 

EDIT:  My battery charger just went to 100% and 12.9v.  That's not very good.

 

I know I've posted this graphic elsewhere in the Forum but this Thread seems like a logical place to insert again.

 

FFHjumpstart_zps2c71db0a.jpg


Edited by GrySql, 07 September 2013 - 07:50 PM.

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The Time Machine....
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Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#6 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:58 PM

I feel like the ppl with the BS message must have defective batteries. What does your battery voltage show in ET Mode? Mine always shows 13.9-14.2 volts. Even when I've sat and listened to the radio with the car off until the Battery Saver message appears my battery voltage has never dropped below 13.6 volts. Granted, all my monitoring in ET Mode is with the car turned on which might make a difference because with the car on the DC-DC converter should be charging the 12V battery off the HVB. I'm curious if those with BS messages see significantly lower numbers for battery volts in ET Mode.


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#7 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:53 PM

I feel like the ppl with the BS message must have defective batteries. What does your battery voltage show in ET Mode? Mine always shows 13.9-14.2 volts. Even when I've sat and listened to the radio with the car off until the Battery Saver message appears my battery voltage has never dropped below 13.6 volts.

I agree, we have marginal batteries but Ford tells us everything is okay "it's within spec's". 

Mine was just topped by the battery charger at 12.9v @ 100% so I started the car in ET Mode, running on HVB it showed 13.5v.

So I pushed the gas pedal to start the ICE, it dropped to 13.4v and never moved for 5 minutes, then I shut it off.

What am I to think?

More importantly, what do I do, or even better yet, how do I get the Dealer to replace the battery. 

I was told that if it meets spec's the Dealer has to pay for it, my Dealer declined to do that. 

So do I.

 

My excessive time spent charging the batteries has moderated since the 'hard reset' but it is still there, and now I see a possible reason why.

Well, it's all interesting.

I'll drive it until next year and check my options then.


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#8 OFFLINE   gkinla

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:12 PM

GrySql, I complained to my dealer back in April regarding the BS message that just started every time I shut the car off. After two visits a week apart the battery was changed. The SA spoke to a hybrid tech and at that time he said that Ford had a batch of bad 12v batteries. My build date is 11/28/12. My buy date is 12/12/12. I haven't had any BS notices since, pun intended.

 

I just went to the garage and started the car in ET mode. I have a power port volt meter and it read 14.0v and the ET display read 13.5v. I shut the car off, you lose ET mode, and with the lights on, the voltage read 13.8v until the lights timed off, then it read 12.2v.



#9 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:47 PM

Glinka, I had them check it before they did the BS software update, said it was okay. Denied me a new battery.
It was checked last week, all okay, within spec's - after the 75 mile drive to them of course.

Just now I connected my battery charger to the actual 12v battery, it was12.7v @ 82%.
I let it charge to 100% @ 13.2v, I got higher readings when connected to the battery, not the under hood terminals.
Of course, I'd just charged it an hour before.

I started the car in ET mode = 13.5v again, like yours. Whatever that means.

Next time I'm at our Dealer we'll discuss it, but right now my Dealer is not on my dance card.
I just hope my mpg's climb and stay into a reasonable level, I'll be happy to be back at my 'before all the updates' mileage.
I have that trip over the Sierra's next week to Lake Tahoe, not expecting much mpg's going up and over 11,000', but coming down ought to be good.

Btw, my car is a 12/01/12 build with a 12/12/12 delivery, pretty close to yours! :0)

????
Say, does anyone know if these little Ford 12v batteries are lead acid or AGM (glass mat)?
My battery charger defaults to charging an AGM Battery, wonder why.
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#10 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:51 AM

Say, does anyone know if these little Ford 12v batteries are lead acid or AGM (glass mat)?
My battery charger defaults to charging an AGM Battery, wonder why.

They are standard wet cell batteries.  If the battery is removed from the car and rocked back and forth the fluid sloshing around is plainly audible.



#11 OFFLINE   MaineFusion

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:15 AM

I hope some really good aftermarket gel batteries come out as an alternative to the standard OEM battery.  I don't know what is gained by having a midget battery other than maybe 5-10 lbs less weight. Certainly, Ford won't be making a significant amount of money by being able to sell extra batteries because of a lack of aftermarket alternatives.


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#12 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:03 AM

These cars don't need a big battery with a lot of cranking amps. The batterty does have a small but significant electronics load when the car is off. There were a batch of marginal batteries in the 2010 Gen 1 FFH's also. A bigger battery is not the best solution. A small one that works right is the answer.


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#13 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:52 PM

GrySql, I complained to my dealer back in April regarding the BS message that just started every time I shut the car off. After two visits a week apart the battery was changed. The SA spoke to a hybrid tech and at that time he said that Ford had a batch of bad 12v batteries. My build date is 11/28/12. My buy date is 12/12/12. I haven't had any BS notices since, pun intended.

Btw, my car is a 12/01/12 build with a 12/12/12 delivery, pretty close to yours!

 Our build date was right around there too! We were in between you two and yet we didn't get a bad 12V battery...how strange. Our build date was 11/29/12 and delivery on 12/17/12.


Edited by hybridbear, 08 September 2013 - 05:52 PM.

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#14 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:05 PM

 Our build date was right around there too! We were in between you two and yet we didn't get a bad 12V battery...how strange. Our build date was 11/29/12 and delivery on 12/17/12.

Haha, there were several big boxcars full of batteries sitting at a siding near the Hermosillo assembly plant, they sat there for months awaiting installation in FFH's.

As the FFH cars were built in the assembly building the workers unloaded the pallets of batteries with forklifts, some were left outside on the loading dock in the 120F sun until needed, some were stored inside near the installation area in the shade.

 

Guess which batteries glinka, B25Nut and I got?

My imagination at work again... ;)


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#15 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:14 PM

Haha, there were several big boxcars full of batteries sitting at a siding near the Hermosillo assembly plant, they sat there for months awaiting installation in FFH's.

As the FFH cars were built in the assembly building the workers unloaded the pallets of batteries with forklifts, some were left outside on the loading dock in the 120F sun until needed, some were stored inside near the installation area in the shade.

 

Guess which batteries glinka, B25Nut and I got?

My imagination at work again... ;)

Are you talking HVBs or 12V batteries? Being exposed to extreme heat could cause damage to the HVBs too before having been installed. That's why I'd like to use a SGII to compare with someone with lower gas mileage to see how the HVB is performing.


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#16 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:18 PM

Are you talking HVBs or 12V batteries? Being exposed to extreme heat could cause damage to the HVBs too before having been installed. That's why I'd like to use a SGII to compare with someone with lower gas mileage to see how the HVB is performing.

The 12v battery, just poking fun at the idea.

I used to think the HVB had the same possibility until the Tech explained the self monitoring software the HVB uses. 

I can't argue with something I don't understand and he was very confident of.

 

HB, like you I've spent an inordinate amount of time with this car in a Dealership.  As nice as getting a free breakfast sandwich at my Dealer's is, it's not repayment for my time and travel expenses.

I've had to ride in a tow truck, spent money on a spare tire and spent time discussing, emailing, cajoling and convincing Service Writers and other service staff that this car needs one thing or another.

Now I have to spend another couple hours replacing all my Nav destinations because they updated my MFT,  plus wonder about personally charging my 12v battery.

 

I've been as far up the Ford Corporate chain as the Fusion Marketing Manager's office, Ms. Samantha Hoyt's, to find a solution about the wrong shifter knob being installed.  (You have the model car she had sent to me as part of a gift package for bringing that deficiency to her attention)

In short, this car has been somewhat difficult to own.

 

I doubt I'll get a SG II to spend more of my time and money trying to understand the inner algorithms of the Ford OBD II, MFT and other controlling software in this car.

 

The upside to all this is that I've enjoyed my time on this Forum immensely and feel fortunate that all this information is here, it sort of takes the confusion out of the Fusion.

The other, and unreasonable I suppose, facet of all this is that I truly like driving this car, it's looks and comfort are most rewarding - I am proud of it.

 

This next little 1,500 mile outing ought to answer some questions about if there is a 'hard reset' difference.


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The Time Machine....
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#17 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:10 PM

The 12v battery, just poking fun at the idea.

I used to think the HVB had the same possibility until the Tech explained the self monitoring software the HVB uses. 

I can't argue with something I don't understand and he was very confident of.

 

HB, like you I've spent an inordinate amount of time with this car in a Dealership.  As nice as getting a free breakfast sandwich at my Dealer's is, it's not repayment for my time and travel expenses.

I've had to ride in a tow truck, spent money on a spare tire and spent time discussing, emailing, cajoling and convincing Service Writers and other service staff that this car needs one thing or another.

Now I have to spend another couple hours replacing all my Nav destinations because they updated my MFT,  plus wonder about personally charging my 12v battery.

 

I've been as far up the Ford Corporate chain as the Fusion Marketing Manager's office, Ms. Samantha Hoyt's, to find a solution about the wrong shifter knob being installed.  (You have the model car she had sent to me as part of a gift package for bringing that deficiency to her attention)

In short, this car has been somewhat difficult to own.

 

I doubt I'll get a SG II to spend more of my time and money trying to understand the inner algorithms of the Ford OBD II, MFT and other controlling software in this car.

 

The upside to all this is that I've enjoyed my time on this Forum immensely and feel fortunate that all this information is here, it sort of takes the confusion out of the Fusion.

The other, and unreasonable I suppose, facet of all this is that I truly like driving this car, it's looks and comfort are most rewarding - I am proud of it.

 

This next little 1,500 mile outing ought to answer some questions about if there is a 'hard reset' difference.

Inordinate is a perfect word to describe this. Our issues have been almost all trim/poor build quality problems, but we also had a few mechanical issues with ice getting into the fuel filler neck and the bad purge solenoid. The amount of time our car has spent at the dealer has been as much a function of the dealer's poor service and a shortage of parts from Ford's distribution channels as the total number of issues. Multiple times the dealer has caused themselves more work by damaging additional trim pieces trying to replace the ones that came damaged from the factory. They have also had a lack of communication between the SA and the parts dept where the SA kept our car thinking parts were coming when the parts dept had never ordered anything. I was very happy with the sales side of Apple Valley Ford, but their service dept has been terrible. Once we get through all these issues that they're in process on I'm going to try a different Ford dealer for future warranty service issues to try to find someone with better service.

 

The ScanGauge is a useful tool and I think it will help me to further maximize my fuel economy because it's providing me with more of an understanding of how the car works and thus I can work to make the car operate most efficiently more often.


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Current Vehicles

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#18 OFFLINE   MaineFusion

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:32 PM

The amount of time our car has spent at the dealer has been as much a function of the dealer's poor service and a shortage of parts from Ford's distribution channels as the total number of issues. Multiple times the dealer has caused themselves more work by damaging additional trim pieces trying to replace the ones that came damaged from the factory.

Same here,  around half of my visits could have been avoided if it weren't for dealer inflicted errors/damage.


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#19 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:21 PM

Here is PDF link for the 2013 Hybrid HVB removal I don't think there is much information for us "normal" people but still interesting in case you need to take out the HVB.

http://elvsolutions....moval_Final.pdf
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#20 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:16 PM

Here is PDF link for the 2013 Hybrid HVB removal I don't think there is much information for us "normal" people but still interesting in case you need to take out the HVB.

http://elvsolutions....moval_Final.pdf

Two interesting things, first it has the First Responders Identification section, which points out the badge locations.  So when they approach a wreck, they will be looking for those badges, so if they are removed, they run the risk of not knowing its a Hybrid, unless they open the hood. 

 

Second,  The VIN. For the Fusion Titanium Energi. its  P0S.... hmmm P0S, really? Thats not a nice thing to call a very expensive car. LOL


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