Software Updates from Ford to improve MPGs

[corncobs]

 

A spinning engine still creates more friction than one that isn't spinning, regardless of how much fuel is injected. That's one of the fundamental principles of a hybrid powertrain. Energy lost by that friction is energy that is no longer available for regen.

Not sure if I get your logic; what HB is saying is that if you are letting go the throttle at 65 MPH the fuel injection is shut off. At the same time it will charge the HVB since you have an excess of engery especially when down grade assist is enabled on a down hill. On a level road same thing happens the car is slowing down charging the HVB while coasting slowly to a stop.

[dalesky]

Theoretically a software update should or could take an hour or so at most, since the computers will be reprogrammed, with no physical upgrades. When I tune my Mustang here is a sample of what is possible with just a fairly simple flash module:

• WOT Fuel Adjustment
• Idle RPM
• Spark Adjustment
• Transmission Shift Points
• Axle Ratio
• Fuel Injector Size
• Tire Size - Rev / Mile
• Air Intake Selection
• Cooling Fan Temps
• Traction Control On / Off
• Rev / Speed Limiters
• Two Step On / Off RPM

I have avoided the dealer so far, and I hope this update will take the 1/2 day or less that I am hearing about. In any event, it's a good thing.

[dalesky]

That would be my question as well. What happens if now after the update the interstate mileage drops because of the higher EV speed cut off. Causing my trip average to drop.

Then again if it does improve the cold weather FE it might be worth the loss of 2 MPG in the sommer month when we can gain 4-5 MPG in winter and short trips.

Hey Hey! I don't have no stinkin' Winter here to worry about! Let's take it easy about all this Winter stuff. I do make a lot of short trips tho, and since the AC is running a lot more I am getting less MPG, but still it's easy to get over 40 around town at under 60.

[milleron]

 

Agreed. Since we have DFSO when we go down a hill at speeds greater than 62 MPH the ICE stays on but the injectors shut off so it isn't consuming fuel. I don't see how increasing the EV threshold will improve MPGs, I fear that this change will actually make highway MPGs worse. But at the same time I feel like we should trust that the Ford engineers know what they're doing.

 

I have to disagree, having a higher threshold for EV ONLY will allow your car to go into EV ONLY at normal highway speeds. Sure, it wont be a lot and the road will have to be flat or slightly downhill but itll get you more MPGs then the current instruction to use ICE+EV at anything above 62 unless your going on a steep hill. Just having the engine shut off for 10 to 15 seconds here and there at 70mph will only gain you mpgs. I dont see it hurting it.

 

 

 

Au contraire, mon frere. I have to agree with Hybridbear and disagree with the "disagree-er." Having the electric motor turn on for "10-15" seconds at those high speeds discharges the HVB very quickly. When the ICE then turns on again, it has to propel the car AND provide the energy to recharge the HVB. Hence, you'll see an instantaneous mileage figure of about 20 mpg for a prolonged time after the ICE resumes in these situations rather than continuing on at 42-45 mpg like it was when the HVB was topped off. I think that this could certainly result in a net decrease in freeway economy. I think I do a little better when setting the cruise control to 65, so the car doesn't enter EV mode on freeways, than I do with it set around 62. I can do better still if the freeway's not crowded, I'm not in a hurry, and I can set the cruise at 55. The point is that in my experience, the most efficient cruising speed on the freeway is just above the EV-mode threshold or 5-10 mph below it. This new software "update" could have the effect of putting you always in a situation where the EV is cutting in long enough to discharge the HVB followed by a prolonged period of 20 mpg.

I'm skeptical of the wisdom of increasing that cut-off point, ESPECIALLY in moving it UP 23 MPH. I do have faith in the Ford engineers who brought us this wonderful car, but I am not positive that they've not been forced by corporate to do something that's a band-aid fix for their PR problems. 85 mph in EV just makes absolutely no sense, intuitively speaking. If it works, I'll take it, but I'll have to be shown.

Edited July 17, 2013 by milleron

[corncobs]

Hey Hey! I don't have no stinkin' Winter here to worry about! Let's take it easy about all this Winter stuff. I do make a lot of short trips tho, and since the AC is running a lot more I am getting less MPG, but still it's easy to get over 40 around town at under 60.

Maybe Ford should use the GPS to figure out where the car is located and adjust the software based of the location. ;-)

Wasn't there also a point made about detecting different driving conditions interstate / highway / city and adjusting the parameters on the fly?

Maybe that's confirms what acdii and HB have expierenced where the car behaved slightly different during city driving after a long stretch of highway. Maybe the FFH has something like that and they have made improvements to this feature.

[Aquineas]

The only problem with that is my Dealer uses Enterprise as the Loaner fleet, they have a desk on the showroom floor - and whatever is in the lot is what you get (sometimes). I pushed it real hard this last time because all they had were older cars that smelled real bad or little econoboxes. Enterprise actually sent to the local Enterprise parking lot and got me a new Escape. The Dealer just told them to make the rental equal or better, Enterprise had to scramble.

I also saw the rental rate for my car, $24 @ day for the Escape Dealer price.

 

Regarding gas in the Rental car, that again is an Enterprise policy, not my Dealer's. Enterprise told me to take my gas issue to the Service Advisor, which I did.

I gave my Rental gas receipts to him and it had to go up a level to get approval.

I was offered Ford Owner Advantage credit on future service or a check to be mailed to me. I made it easy and just had them put in my FOA account, that way it stayed at the Dealer and I can use it for service charges (I have over $60 in that account now).

I friggin' hate Enterprise; it's like you said, all their stuff is usually old and "used car" feeling.

[Aquineas]

Maybe Ford should use the GPS to figure out where the car is located and adjust the software based of the location. ;-)

Wasn't there also a point made about detecting different driving conditions interstate / highway / city and adjusting the parameters on the fly?

Maybe that's confirms what acdii and HB have expierenced where the car behaved slightly different during city driving after a long stretch of highway. Maybe the FFH has something like that and they have made improvements to this feature.

Yanno you might be onto something with using the GPS to provide hints on optimal hybrid operation.

[HenryVIII]

<clueless

 

What?

 

I told you not to worry about your mileage and that there will be an update for it eventually back when you were ranting about your blue Fusion

[hermans]

I friggin' hate Enterprise; it's like you said, all their stuff is usually old and "used car" feeling.

Well, not long ago in San Francisco, and from Enterprise I rented a new Impala with 1,500 miles on it.

[GrySql]

Well, not long ago in San Francisco, and from Enterprise I rented a new Impala with 1,500 miles on it.

The smelly part is the cigarette smoke smell in these 'non-smoking' cars.

The first car they tried to give me was a low mileage '12 Fusion, just in from Las Vegas, not even cleaned - w/bugs, butts and all.

 

I ate smoke for 30 years and currently don't want any more than necessary, thank you.

(Grilling/BBQ smoke is different ;) )

[fusionTX]

Au contraire, mon frere. I have to agree with Hybridbear and disagree with the "disagree-er." Having the electric motor turn on for "10-15" seconds at those high speeds discharges the HVB very quickly. When the ICE then turns on again, it has to propel the car AND provide the energy to recharge the HVB. Hence, you'll see an instantaneous mileage figure of about 20 mpg for a prolonged time after the ICE resumes in these situations rather than continuing on at 42-45 mpg like it was when the HVB was topped off. I think that this could certainly result in a net decrease in freeway economy. I think I do a little better when setting the cruise control to 65, so the car doesn't enter EV mode on freeways, than I do with it set around 62. I can do better still if the freeway's not crowded, I'm not in a hurry, and I can set the cruise at 55. The point is that in my experience, the most efficient cruising speed on the freeway is just above the EV-mode threshold or 5-10 mph below it. This new software "update" could have the effect of putting you always in a situation where the EV is cutting in long enough to discharge the HVB followed by a prolonged period of 20 mpg.

I'm skeptical of the wisdom of increasing that cut-off point, ESPECIALLY in moving it UP 23 MPH. I do have faith in the Ford engineers who brought us this wonderful car, but I am not positive that they've not been forced by corporate to do something that's a band-aid fix for their PR problems. 85 mph in EV just makes absolutely no sense, intuitively speaking. If it works, I'll take it, but I'll have to be shown.

The fact that the 2014 models will include these changes would suggest this is a step forward.

 

The quote from Nair is as follows:

 

"Just as individual mileage can vary based on driving styles and environmental conditions, we expect fuel economy improvements will differ from customer to customer depending on individual driving habits," said Nair. "Customers should see the most improvement at highway speeds, during air conditioner use and operation in colder climates."

[jsolan]

I have a 7 hour road trip to Boston the 2nd weekend of August. I'd love to be a guinea pig and have the update applied before that trip. I just have my doubts they'll have it ready before then.

Even with high SOC driving 68-70, my car "only" gets 37-38 on the highway. I keep seeing posts that it should be over 40 under those conditions and I'm just not experiencing it, so I'm willing to try the update.

[keithsm2]

See this post

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7188-software-updates-from-ford-to-improve-mpgs/?p=60165

 

Since we have DFSO the ICE stays running but uses no gas already when we're traveling faster than 62 MPH but don't need the power of the ICE

I think what he was saying is that even though we have DFSO ----- "IF" the motor is still turning....even without fuel going to it.....it creates a friction loss. That energy could be used....

[Waldo]

Au contraire, mon frere. I have to agree with Hybridbear and disagree with the "disagree-er." Having the electric motor turn on for "10-15" seconds at those high speeds discharges the HVB very quickly. When the ICE then turns on again, it has to propel the car AND provide the energy to recharge the HVB. Hence, you'll see an instantaneous mileage figure of about 20 mpg for a prolonged time after the ICE resumes in these situations rather than continuing on at 42-45 mpg like it was when the HVB was topped off. I think that this could certainly result in a net decrease in freeway economy. I think I do a little better when setting the cruise control to 65, so the car doesn't enter EV mode on freeways, than I do with it set around 62. I can do better still if the freeway's not crowded, I'm not in a hurry, and I can set the cruise at 55. The point is that in my experience, the most efficient cruising speed on the freeway is just above the EV-mode threshold or 5-10 mph below it. This new software "update" could have the effect of putting you always in a situation where the EV is cutting in long enough to discharge the HVB followed by a prolonged period of 20 mpg.

I'm skeptical of the wisdom of increasing that cut-off point, ESPECIALLY in moving it UP 23 MPH. I do have faith in the Ford engineers who brought us this wonderful car, but I am not positive that they've not been forced by corporate to do something that's a band-aid fix for their PR problems. 85 mph in EV just makes absolutely no sense, intuitively speaking. If it works, I'll take it, but I'll have to be shown.

 

You're not going to see the car go into EV mode going up a hill at 85mph. There are a couple situations where fuel can be saved at higher speeds. One is when the SOC is very high. Might as well use that energy and leave enough room in the battery to capture any future regen. Second is when coasting or very light load conditions. Currently, as described above, over 62mph and coasting the engine remains spinning though no fuel is delivered. However the energy to spin the engine has to come from somewhere - it comes from the kinetic energy of the vehicle back-driving the engine. Just like engine braking in a conventional car, cutting off the fuel and allowing the engine to slow the car instead of the brakes results in the car slowing down faster than coasting in neutral - because the friction and pumping loses of the engine take away the kinetic energy. If you can fully shut down and disengage the ICE at high speeds, you can recover more of the kinetic energy and thus burn less fuel overall.

 

So coasting down a hill at 85mph in full EV mode makes a LOT of sense. That's something you can't do now, but can with the new software.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Waldo

[acdii]

Not sure if I get your logic; what HB is saying is that if you are letting go the throttle at 65 MPH the fuel injection is shut off. At the same time it will charge the HVB since you have an excess of engery especially when down grade assist is enabled on a down hill. On a level road same thing happens the car is slowing down charging the HVB while coasting slowly to a stop.

The mass of ICE turning when it isnt needed creates a loss. If the ICE is disconnected from the power train when not needed, such as when in EV mode, that mass of spinning parts no longer is dragging down the power train. In other words, to keep that mass moving, power from the road, car moving forward, is applied to keep it spinning, and there is your loss. In EV, with the ICE disconnected, then any and all energy recovered from going downhill can either be neutral, where you can gain speed freely, or recovered by regen and put back in the pack while maintaining speed by downhill braking. It takes quite a bit of energy to spin the flywheel, crankshaft, pistons and valve train, even if all compression is removed, which in this case, isnt, just the fuel.

 

 

I told you not to worry about your mileage and that there will be an update for it eventually back when you were ranting about your blue Fusion

I still have my doubts that anything would fix that car. Doesn't matter though, I now have the car I truly want. Hey I got 50 MPG this morning going to work, surprised the crap out of me too!

 

 

 

HAH Waldo and I posted the same thing in a different way at the same time.

Edited July 18, 2013 by acdii

[corncobs]

Waldo and acdii thanks for the slap on my forehead.

 

You are both absolutely right I forgot about the little but important part that the ICE is still moving causing more loss resulting in faster decel when coasting. Now when the threshold goes up the 85 MPH it doesn't necessarily mean that we should drive in EV mode but if you take the foot of the gas it goes into EV mode disconnecting the ICE result in less friction and better coasting properties. And since Ford has done such an awesome job in the transition between ICE and EV mode it should be pretty awesome.

[gadgetguy]

I have been watching this thread pretty close and I myself am glad to see this update. I have been waiting to go to the dealer for the clicking issue until my next service is due, which is in about 500 miles (basically a week lol), and I will definitely have them perform this update.

 

I spend a lot of time on the interstate and I feel that the things they are changing will be beneficial. I have thought many times at highway speeds "if it would just be in EV right now I bet it would get good mpg numbers" lol.

 

I have a few minor things to have done so I am going to just drop it off and leave it until everything is done.

 

Regardless I seriously doubt it's going to make it worse. I'm sure, especially considering the bad press, they have tested this extensively.

 

The one thing that really irritates me is to see people complain that Ford isn't doing anything and then whine and complain when they finally come out with an update that should help. I love my car and I think this is a positive step forward and I look forward to better highway results!

 

Sorry for the rant lol...

[aaronj1159]

 

The one thing that really irritates me is to see people complain that Ford isn't doing anything and then whine and complain when they finally come out with an update that should help. I love my car and I think this is a positive step forward and I look forward to better highway results!

 

Sorry for the rant lol...

Some people will never be happy. I'm really excited to see what happens with the update. I'm going to willingly be one of the guinea pigs for this because I think, if nothing else, this is going to help me in the winters here.

[keithsm2]

The mass of ICE turning when it isnt needed creates a loss. If the ICE is disconnected from the power train when not needed, such as when in EV mode, that mass of spinning parts no longer is dragging down the power train. In other words, to keep that mass moving, power from the road, car moving forward, is applied to keep it spinning, and there is your loss. In EV, with the ICE disconnected, then any and all energy recovered from going downhill can either be neutral, where you can gain speed freely, or recovered by regen and put back in the pack while maintaining speed by downhill braking. It takes quite a bit of energy to spin the flywheel, crankshaft, pistons and valve train, even if all compression is removed, which in this case, isnt, just the fuel.

 

I still have my doubts that anything would fix that car. Doesn't matter though, I now have the car I truly want. Hey I got 50 MPG this morning going to work, surprised the crap out of me too!

 

 

 

HAH Waldo and I posted the same thing in a different way at the same time.

think i beat ya both by 10 min or so :)

[gadgetguy]

Some people will never be happy. I'm really excited to see what happens with the update. I'm going to willingly be one of the guinea pigs for this because I think, if nothing else, this is going to help me in the winters here.

Agreed! I too am looking forward to getting the update done!

[Fynack]

I have been watching this thread pretty close and I myself am glad to see this update. I have been waiting to go to the dealer for the clicking issue until my next service is due, which is in about 500 miles (basically a week lol), and I will definitely have them perform this update.

 

I spend a lot of time on the interstate and I feel that the things they are changing will be beneficial. I have thought many times at highway speeds "if it would just be in EV right now I bet it would get good mpg numbers" lol.

 

I have a few minor things to have done so I am going to just drop it off and leave it until everything is done.

 

Regardless I seriously doubt it's going to make it worse. I'm sure, especially considering the bad press, they have tested this extensively.

 

The one thing that really irritates me is to see people complain that Ford isn't doing anything and then whine and complain when they finally come out with an update that should help. I love my car and I think this is a positive step forward and I look forward to better highway results!

 

Sorry for the rant lol...

 

 

I have been watching this thread pretty close and I myself am glad to see this update. I have been waiting to go to the dealer for the clicking issue until my next service is due, which is in about 500 miles (basically a week lol), and I will definitely have them perform this update.

 

I spend a lot of time on the interstate and I feel that the things they are changing will be beneficial. I have thought many times at highway speeds "if it would just be in EV right now I bet it would get good mpg numbers" lol.

 

I have a few minor things to have done so I am going to just drop it off and leave it until everything is done.

 

Regardless I seriously doubt it's going to make it worse. I'm sure, especially considering the bad press, they have tested this extensively.

 

The one thing that really irritates me is to see people complain that Ford isn't doing anything and then whine and complain when they finally come out with an update that should help. I love my car and I think this is a positive step forward and I look forward to better highway results!

 

Sorry for the rant lol...

Its easy to say when you only waited 3 months for an announcement while others have waited 9 months for any word but a middle finger. Its the first purchasers that "whined" and "complained" that forced these changes which I see solving all the problems with short commutes, normal highway speeds, slow warm up, cold weather, etc... These whiners are the ones that called Ford, went to the dealerships , time and time again to get a resolution.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Fynack

[Charrua]

I'll be getting the update as soon as it's available. The downside will be that if my mileage is better this coming winter than last, I'll never know if it's because of the break-in miles, learning how to drive a hybrid, or Ford's software update.

[Thomz Fusion]

I think it is evident that Ford engineers designed the hybrid control system to maximize the results using the government test procedures. I don't really fault them for wanting to get great sticker MPGs; I'd probably do so myself (I once was a Ford engineer, but that's many years ago). Achieving the sticker MPG efficiency isn't really too difficult, as long as you limit your speed below 60 MPH or so, aren't using 'summer fuel' (reformulated gasoline) and it's not excessively cold (my mileage drops in the winter on short trips) or hot (AC robs some mileage).

 

If you travel the normal 72 MPH in a 65 zone on the freeway, the mileage drops off very quickly. Some of this is due to the added wind resistence. But some apparently is due to the fact that the controls were not optimized at maximize efficiency at that speed.

 

I LOVE the cold weather fix (keeping the shutters closed to help warm the engine more quickly)! I have been using my seat warmers and keeping my heater off during short winter trips.

 

I'm frankly quite optimistic that these tweaks will help.

 

Tom

 

Ps. How do you get those Fuelly 'signatures'? I have been using Fuelly since I got my vehile - currently averaging 41.9 in 10 fuel-ups. I haven't seen how to automatically post the results in the forum, however.

[jeff_h]

Ps. How do you get those Fuelly 'signatures'? I have been using Fuelly since I got my vehile - currently averaging 41.9 in 10 fuel-ups. I haven't seen how to automatically post the results in the forum, however.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7183-show-your-fuelly/

[murphy]

Ps. How do you get those Fuelly 'signatures'? I have been using Fuelly since I got my vehile - currently averaging 41.9 in 10 fuel-ups. I haven't seen how to automatically post the results in the forum, however.

 

http://www.fuelly.com/faq/23/Fuelly-forum-signature-badge