Dead 12 V Battery

[Fastronaut]

They did that 2 weeks ago and never considered changing the battery out until last Friday. That battery only lasted until Monday. The date code on the one that just failed was Sept 2012. The other 3 they had in stock had the same date. they made a wise decision to order a newer one with a later date. Hopefully I can pick it up today. I think they have been holding my car hostage so they can use it as a Ginnie pig to further understand this issue. They have had 3 different field engineers looking at it.

 

You'd think a batch of bad batteries with the same date code would have certainly gotten a large amount of attention in the service community by now with many problems already having been reported. Maybe it's just me, but it seems obvious that either somebody isn't getting the memo or you got technicians in training.

[murphy]

As I've said in other threads I believe that the battery is too small for the load that is always present when the car is turned off. I don't drive every day and my battery is always low. The battery charging TSB had no effect on my situation. A higher charging current is of no value when the car is turned off. If the car has been unused for a couple of days and I hook up a 12 volt battery charger it always indicates that the charge level is less than 50%.

[Spadoac]

 

You'd think a batch of bad batteries with the same date code would have certainly gotten a large amount of attention in the service community by now with many problems already having been reported. Maybe it's just me, but it seems obvious that either somebody isn't getting the memo or you got technicians in training.

From the beginning I informed my service adviser that a simple internet search will shows that a lot of FFH and CMAX owners have been having a lot of issues with battery's manufactured during the 4th QTR 2012. I went in to the Dealer Monday after i was informed of the 2nd battery failure and specifically asked why they would consider installing a battery from Q4/12. Just an embarrassed look and a apology. As for the technicians? They claimed that all they could do is pull data and send it to Ford then be advised of the next step to take. I don't understand the waiting for Ford engineers to tell them they can try changing the battery before the 8th day in the shop? This is one of the largest dealers in our area. One would hope they had competent technicians. As for the Ford Field Service Engineers they looked at my car on day 6,8 and 11.

[acdii]

From the beginning I informed my service adviser that a simple internet search will shows that a lot of FFH and CMAX owners have been having a lot of issues with battery's manufactured during the 4th QTR 2012. I went in to the Dealer Monday after i was informed of the 2nd battery failure and specifically asked why they would consider installing a battery from Q4/12. Just an embarrassed look and a apology. As for the technicians? They claimed that all they could do is pull data and send it to Ford then be advised of the next step to take. I don't understand the waiting for Ford engineers to tell them they can try changing the battery before the 8th day in the shop? This is one of the largest dealers in our area. One would hope they had competent technicians. As for the Ford Field Service Engineers they looked at my car on day 6,8 and 11.

This is why I had so many issues trying to get the BD worked on. Ford corp tends to tie things down and has to approve everything before service can do anything to the car.

[Bruce Griffith]

Not sure what the date code is on my battery, but it has to be from 4Q12. The car was manufactured in very early '13. It a Fusion Energi Titanium. I had the 12V discharge traveling a 70-mile round trip commute. Fortunately, it magically corrected itself before I took the car into the dealership (25 miles in the other direction). When the dealer looked at it, they noted a charging error code and cleared it. Ford told them that the code was meaningless and they did not do the software upgrade. The car has been fine for over a month now, but it is driven pretty much daily.

[acdii]

Next week my dark horse will be parked in a garage all by itself, so will be interesting to see if it discharges during that time.

[Spadoac]

I just picked up my car Friday from its 3 visit to my local Ford Dealer. First time was just a day ( TSB software update) 2nd time was 12 days ( replaced battery). The 3rd time was 7 days. The shop foreman and a Ford FSE spent Monday- Wednesday going though all the control modules checking them and their connections for water damage and or pins that may not be crimped or seated properly. They were unable to notice anything that wrong so they had me pick it up.

 

I was at the shop on Tuesday and was able to see them working to find the issue with my car. They admitted there were a few cases with similar issue to what is going on with my car. The TSB software update was the fix in most of the cases. The rest were resolved by going thought the modules and connections so they felt confident they had ended this nightmare.

 

Well, they were wrong! I go out to get into my car tonight and I once again cannot unlock it with the fab! Try the keyless entry pad and it acts as if the battery is dead. By now I am an expert at removing the cover so I can unlock the door with the key. I put the key in the ignition. Still dead at the accesory position but the alarm then goes off at the start position. I shut the alarm off and turn the key again then it starts.

 

I have made a formal request to Ford to replace this Lemon. My wife wants me to get my money back and buy something different. Not sure why but I still love this car.

 

Tomorrow I am going to try and duplicate this and video tape it. I have a very good idea how.

[murphy]

I'm unable to figure out your timeline.

It reads like you picked up the car from the dealer on Tuesday and did not drive it again until Saturday night.

Was this what actually happened?

 

I have an Energi instead of a hybrid but have found there is a significant load on the 12 volt battery when the car is turned off.

I have done measurements and have found that after sitting unused for a few hours less than 3 days the 12 volt battery is down to around 35% of full charge.

I keep intending to measure the load on the 12 volt battery when the car is off but so far have not done it.

 

Ford does not publish the capacity of their 12 volt battery. They only give a CCA rating which is meaningless in a car that does not have a starter motor. The high voltage battery is used to start the engine. That is why you were able to start it with the 12 volt battery almost completely dead.

 

It is my opinion that the 12 volt battery is too small for this car if the car is not driven every day. It should work fine if the car is driven at least 25 miles every day.

 

My 2010 Fusion Hybrid also had this same problem because I didn't drive the car for days at a time.

I resigned myself to having to top off the 12 volt battery with a battery charger if the car had been sitting for a week without being used.

[Fastronaut]

I just picked up my car Friday from its 3 visit to my local Ford Dealer. First time was just a day ( TSB software update) 2nd time was 12 days ( replaced battery). The 3rd time was 7 days. The shop foreman and a Ford FSE spent Monday- Wednesday going though all the control modules checking them and their connections for water damage and or pins that may not be crimped or seated properly. They were unable to notice anything that wrong so they had me pick it up.

 

I was at the shop on Tuesday and was able to see them working to find the issue with my car. They admitted there were a few cases with similar issue to what is going on with my car. The TSB software update was the fix in most of the cases. The rest were resolved by going thought the modules and connections so they felt confident they had ended this nightmare.

 

Well, they were wrong! I go out to get into my car tonight and I once again cannot unlock it with the fab! Try the keyless entry pad and it acts as if the battery is dead. By now I am an expert at removing the cover so I can unlock the door with the key. I put the key in the ignition. Still dead at the accesory position but the alarm then goes off at the start position. I shut the alarm off and turn the key again then it starts.

 

I have made a formal request to Ford to replace this Lemon. My wife wants me to get my money back and buy something different. Not sure why but I still love this car.

 

Tomorrow I am going to try and duplicate this and video tape it. I have a very good idea how.

I've been through the Lemon Law replacement process with Ford on my 2013 FFH and it is a bit complicated, depending upon your State Law.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6669-electric-brake-came-on-and-hyti-wouldnt-budge/

 

Good luck.

[Spadoac]

I'm unable to figure out your timeline.

It reads like you picked up the car from the dealer on Tuesday and did not drive it again until Saturday night.

Was this what actually happened?

 

I have an Energi instead of a hybrid but have found there is a significant load on the 12 volt battery when the car is turned off.

I have done measurements and have found that after sitting unused for a few hours less than 3 days the 12 volt battery is down to around 35% of full charge.

I keep intending to measure the load on the 12 volt battery when the car is off but so far have not done it.

 

Ford does not publish the capacity of their 12 volt battery. They only give a CCA rating which is meaningless in a car that does not have a starter motor. The high voltage battery is used to start the engine. That is why you were able to start it with the 12 volt battery almost completely dead.

 

It is my opinion that the 12 volt battery is too small for this car if the car is not driven every day. It should work fine if the car is driven at least 25 miles every day.

 

My 2010 Fusion Hybrid also had this same problem because I didn't drive the car for days at a time.

I resigned myself to having to top off the 12 volt battery with a battery charger if the car had been sitting for a week without being used.

Sorry if the time line was confusing.The tuesday visit was just a meeting with the shop foreman and the FFSE. I picked it up the morning of the 5th. My car really never sits but over night. I am always on the run. Every time I have had a problem I had driven with in the previous hour. This last time I it was a 10 mile round trip. On the way back I plugged in my cell phone charger into the 12v power point in front of the console. This may be the contributing factor to the issues I am having. The previous time of failure I may have using it then also. That was a one way 40 mile trip on the freeway.

[lolder]

A cell phone charger should not cause a problem.

[murphy]

The general rule of thumb, for the last 50 years, was that it takes 25 miles of continuous driving to fully charge a lead acid battery. That is for a car that puts a tremendous load on the battery to start the engine. This car does not do that. The battery is only used to run the electronics and accessories. For a car that is driven a lot I can only think of two possibilities. The battery charging circuit has a problem or the battery is defective.

[Fastronaut]

Sorry if the time line was confusing.The tuesday visit was just a meeting with the shop foreman and the FFSE. I picked it up the morning of the 5th. My car really never sits but over night. I am always on the run. Every time I have had a problem I had driven with in the previous hour. This last time I it was a 10 mile round trip. On the way back I plugged in my cell phone charger into the 12v power point in front of the console. This may be the contributing factor to the issues I am having. The previous time of failure I may have using it then also. That was a one way 40 mile trip on the freeway.

I was just away on a trip for 8 days and let the FFH sit unused for the entire time. It started right up with no problems. It's a Job 2 build in April 2013.

[jeff_h]

On the way back I plugged in my cell phone charger into the 12v power point in front of the console. This may be the contributing factor to the issues I am having. The previous time of failure I may have using it then also.

 

Have you tried using a cable from USB to phone to charge it and avoid using the 12v port at all, to see if that makes a difference? And then if it behaves fine like that, then maybe try using that charger in the rear 12v port (to see if using the other port successfully might indicate that the front port has an issue) or see if it occurs once again (maybe indicating that the charger itself is the issue)? I agree with lolder above that the charger should not be such a drain and cause these issues, but maybe changing the config to help isolate the conditions of the problem may be a worthwhile move?

[hybridbear]

We don't drive our car every day. It usually doesn't get driven on Mondays at all. A few other days a week its only driven less than 15 miles. The only day we drive 20+ miles in a day is Saturday. And we go months between driving 25 miles continuously. Outside of our road trips I could count on my fingers the single trips greater than 25 miles we've taken. We average less than 1000 miles per month. We've never had any 12V battery issues, our build date was late November (the exact date is in my signature).

 

Spadoac- I'm sorry to hear about the 12V battery issues that you're having. I hope it gets figured out soon. Short trips shouldn't cause the battery to fail, as shown by our experience with lots of short trips. If your dealer has a stock of batteries that were manufactured at the same time as your original battery from the factory those batteries are likely all bad and it won't do any good putting in another battery from that batch that is also defective.

[murphy]

I keep intending to measure the load on the 12 volt battery when the car is off but so far have not done it.

 

I finally found time to do this.

The car draws 0.16 ampere with spikes to 0.2 ampere about every 30 seconds when it is turned off.

 

0.16 ampere times 24 hours times 7 days is 26.88 ampere-hours per week.

 

That's not enough to explain the low charge levels that I am seeing when the car is not used for a few days.

 

I don't have a way to record the current draw for a 24 hour period to see what else might be going on.