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What is an eCVT? How does it work? Here is the answer

eCVT hybrid powersplit device transmission Fusion Hybrid

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71 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:10 PM

It worked OK when I posted it and I can get to the PDF file by clicking on the "here" link in that Yahoo page.









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#62 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:58 PM

It worked OK when I posted it and I can get to the PDF file by clicking on the "here" link in that Yahoo page.

http://www.vfaq.net/...shook_world.pdf


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#63 OFFLINE   aschulz261

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 08:35 PM

After watching and rewatching the videos, I am pretty sure I understand the basics of how the system works.  The part I don't get is how the ICE supplies torque to the final drive.  It would seem that the only way to do that would be to apply a torque to the planetary gears.  I can see that happening if the generator is charging the HVB.  But what happens if the HVB is charged?  Can anyone explain how ICE torque is applied across the planetary gearset? 



#64 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 08:58 PM

Some energy from the HVB is used to encourage the power to flow from ICE to final drive. Simplified, When max torque is requested, the MG on the ICE will spin at the same RPM as the flywheel into the planetary gearset to transmit the full torque to the drive MG, and when in generator mode the ice spins it faster (or slower), putting less torque on the PG.   In a conventional transmission PG are controlled via clutch packs to lock drums at various speeds. In the eCVT this is all controlled electronically. 

 

In a belt driven CVT  its done with sheeves, controlled by hydraulics, as power demands are requested the CPU sends more or less pressure to the drive sheeve to change the belt position.  When it is slow the final sheeve has more belt than the drive sheeve, and at high speeds the drive sheeve has more belt.  Think of the chain on a 10 speed bike.   In eCVT this is all done with the MG and planetary gearset.  at high torque demands, the ICE side MG is spinning faster to transmit the power to the final drive, and at cruise it is turning slower.   

 

I would love to disassemble one to see how they are interconnected between the ICE and output shaft to the diff. 


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#65 OFFLINE   aschulz261

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 12:32 AM

so you are saying that a torque is applied to MG1 to lock it to the ICE rpm?  does that put MG1 into generator mode or motor mode?  It sounds like the software has to be extremely complicated.



#66 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 05:13 AM

MG1 can be a motor or a generator and turn in either direction. The software is very sophisticated but Toyota has been doing it since 1997 and Ford since 2003. When the HVB is full or the system doesn't want to charge it, MG1 generator load is created by driving MG2. This is all done by software that controls the three phase, synchronous, , permanent magnet and brushless MG1 and MG2. The torque can be controlled very finely and instantaneously. There are no moving parts except the MG rotors, the planetary gear and the gearing to MG2 and the differential.

The transformation back and forth from the high voltage DC of the HVB to the variable 3 phase AC voltage and frequencies of the MGs is done by "Insulated Gate Bi-polar Transistors" ( IGBT, http://en.wikipedia....olar_transistor). These were developed in the early '80's for industrial electric motor control such as on high speed trains and were built by electronics companies. Toyota realized they would need millions of them when thousands were then being produced so their own automotive electic and electronics company improved them. Toyota improved the reliability enormously because when one fails in a hybrid, the car is DOR ( dead on the road ). There are at least two in every eCVT hybrid and more in hybrids like some Fords and others that boost HVB voltage. The variable speed AC compressor may use one also.

There have been very few IGBT failures most of which were in 2006-10 Toyota Highlander and 2006-08 Lexus RX 400H SUVs which were recalled in 2013 for replacement of the power modules which contain the IGBTs. It sounds like a manufacturing defect cropped up.


Edited by lolder, 21 April 2015 - 05:19 AM.

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#67 OFFLINE   aschulz261

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 03:13 PM

That would explain it.  I couldn't get my head wrapped around where the load on MG1 was coming from if the HVB was charged.


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#68 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 07:40 AM

When the car is on the highway it will go into negative split mode (described in the power flow screen thread). In this mode the generator motor consumes electrical energy and turns it into mechanical energy to control the ICE RPM and to route the ICE torque through the planetary gearset to the wheels. The traction motor then consumes some of this mechanical energy and converts it to electrical energy which supplies the generator motor. This is why highway driving in our car is inherently less efficient than the Accord Hybrid which uses a clutch to circumvent the electric motors and their conversion losses when driving at highway speeds. This adds additional mechanical complications to the system but improves MPGs. The new Chevy Volt will behave similarly.

 

That would explain it.  I couldn't get my head wrapped around where the load on MG1 was coming from if the HVB was charged.


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#69 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 04:27 PM

This adds additional mechanical complications to the system but improves MPGs. The new Chevy Volt will behave similarly.

 

Chevy has really doubled down on the complexity in the Volt. The original had the two motors and one planetary gear set like ours but with two electrically operated clutches. The new one adds another planetary gear set and a mechanical clutch to keep the engine from turning backwards. Where does it stop?



#70 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 04:29 PM

When the agree to pay the patent license fee to Toyota or Ford.


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#71 OFFLINE   Raymondjram

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 05:55 PM

According to the Escape Hybrid development history, Ford engineers did their own CVT design and later discovered that their design was similar to Toyota's. So Ford negociated licensing agreements to Toyota before production. The "jab" that Ford copied Toyota is false. This is another case where two different designs came up with the same results.

 

The Gen 1 design that GM used in the Chevy Volt is also different than Ford's or Toyota's and no licesing agreements were needed.. You can find how the Volt works online. And the Gen 2 Volt is more of a parallel hybrid than Gen 1, whcih will begin sales in October.

 

But GM's design allows the Volt to run 100% on electricity at 99MPH.


Edited by Raymondjram, 28 September 2015 - 05:58 PM.


#72 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 06:29 PM

There are three parts to the planetary gear sets that these cars use; the "Sun" ( center ), the "Planet Carrier" and the "Ring" ( outer ) gears. The Volt uses them differently than the Toyota/Ford method and it is inferior and needs clutches. As they modify it to be closer to T/F, it's performance improves. It never was an electric car as GM claimed, it was a series-parallel hybrid like the T/Fs and not as good. It has a niche, however that the plug in hybrids are inching towards with bigger batteries. The problem is the design goals are different for hybrids than plug in hybrids and all the ones we see now are so - so compromises. If the Volt had gone with the eCVT T/F transmission, it would have been a better and cheaper car but they didn't want to pay the royalties IMHO.  


Edited by lolder, 28 September 2015 - 06:29 PM.






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