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What is an eCVT? How does it work? Here is the answer

eCVT hybrid powersplit device transmission Fusion Hybrid

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71 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   majorleeslow

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:24 PM


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#22 OFFLINE   majorleeslow

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:25 PM

Sorry the link didn't come through the first time.
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#23 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:24 PM

Sorry the link didn't come through the first time.

Thanks for the video. This is why I wish someone would show us the inside of the new FFH design, to end the uncertainty.


Edited by hybridbear, 02 September 2013 - 08:24 PM.

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#24 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:34 PM

This is old, but interesting.

http://www.youtube.c...3vLm35E6uM#t=28


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#25 OFFLINE   majorleeslow

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:59 AM

Does anyone know what this number on the tranny mean?

1313754347755 trans strategy
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#26 OFFLINE   majorleeslow

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 10:53 PM

Thanks for the video. This is why I wish someone would show us the inside of the new FFH design, to end the uncertainty.


I agree totally this car is gorgeous looking and gives great mpg if you treat her nice. But so many unknowns Ford has been very quiet on the inside specs. would love to open it up. scared to void the warranties.
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#27 OFFLINE   No1hedberg

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:41 AM

That is a great video.  I saw earlier in parts diagrams that Ford has a clutch plate in their eCVT between the ICE and the planet carrier.  This video confirms that Toyota has the same thing.  It still appears that this clutch is passive (never released or locked) and just serves as a shock eliminator when the ICE starts and stops.  At least the instructor never mentions the clutch playing a part in the power train.  Anyone have another theory of the function of the clutch?  The noise I have in my transmission "could" have a relationship to the clutch as it only happens when the ICE starts pulling or slacks off the load.  I am learning to ignore the sound as it does not seem to be getting any louder.  Yes, it would be great if we had a video of the Ford setup.


I'm certain that the infamous Prius "thunk" is related to this clutch locking and slipping as the ice starts and stops. Thankfully Ford found a way to smooth that transition. What an informative video. Thanks for posting it.

#28 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:42 PM

Additional info from the response to my PM to Ashley with technical questions:

1)The eCVT uses an electric motor, final drive, planetary gear set, a transfer shaft, and the starter/generator electric motor. The planetary gear set is used so that the ICE can drive either just the starter/generator or, if needed, provide extra power to the final drive in addition to what the electric motor is providing. The shop manual (which you can purchase access to here) will outline in more detail how these parts function. The Ford engineering team selected this design for many reasons, but that info is proprietary.

2) The ICE is not directly connected to the wheels. It can either just provide power by turning the generator of if needed can provide torque to the final drive through the planetary gear set.

Edited by hybridbear, 22 December 2013 - 09:43 PM.

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#29 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 08:59 AM

Additional technical info from Ashley:

The primary purpose for the ICE is to the charge the battery. However, it is also possible under heavy load conditions to have the planetary set direct torque to the final drive of the transmission assembly from the ICE. So the ICE can provide extra power for acceleration by turning the generator or directly providing torque through the planetary set. Most of the time it will only turn the generator.

 

This sounds very similar to how Honda has described the operation of the new HAH...


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#30 OFFLINE   bsondhi

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:15 PM

Here is an article on Honda's new Hybrid. It uses the two motor system. Not very technical but iMMD seems like Ford and Toyota's Hybrid eCVT.

 

 

Honda's i-MMD is, in fact, a hybrid of a hybrid system. So long as there is sufficient juice in the battery (and typically at around-town speeds and moderate throttle demand) the Hybrid operates as a series hybrid, with the engine driving the generator that powers the e-motor and recharges the battery. As speeds increase—and, again, depending on a host of efficiency-minded powertrain algorithms—the car switches to more conventional parallel-hybrid power flow, with gas engine and e-motor contributing torque. The advantages are many, starting with packaging. Honda's system dispenses with a conventional continuously variable transmission (CVT), relying instead on fixed ratios between engine, e-motor and wheels. This power flow also avoids the slippage and incremental inefficiency of a CVT.

 

 

http://online.wsj.co...endHeader_Right



#31 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:37 PM

There is no slippage in Ford/Toyota eCVT's. There is no "incremental inefficiency" in them; in fact they are incremental EFFICIENT. The planetary gear heart of the eCVT is not very big. The Ford M/Gs are big. They have no electric clutch which can wear and has to engage very precisely to be smooth. The new ones seem to be doing so. Time will tell.


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#32 OFFLINE   jmellen

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:29 PM

After reading all the information I could find in this forum and some elsewhere as well regarding the eCVT I am thinking that the planetary gear is a key element.  The three main components of the planetary gear set are the sun gear, planet gears and ring gear.  I understand that in most applications of a planetary gear set one of these three is stationary but not so for the FFH.  In this case all three can be moving at once.  I am not sure of other valid combinations.  Perhaps others can shed light on this.  Then I found a web site with a great demo tool showing the application of the planetary gear set in an environment like the Prius or FFH.  It show RPMs for MG1, MG2 and ICE and the resulting MPH.  Here is the link:  http://eahart.com/prius/psd/  Enjoy it and let me know what you think. 


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#33 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:42 PM

The Toyota/Prius, etal, system works the same as Ford's, the architecture is different. Block diagrams would look the same. The computer controls the torque, both positive and negative in either rotation direction on M/G 1 which is connected to the sun gear. That controls the eCVT and ICE RPM. All the complicated stuff is done by software and the brushless, 3 phase, synchronous M/G 1. There's almost nothing to wear out. There are no valves, bands, torque converters, clutches, transmission fluid ( only gear oil ), alternators, starters or belts ( after 2012 ). They should run forever. They won't but the most likely failures will be ICE wear out and eventual HVB open circuit failure. There seem to be few of either yet and many are now over 100 K miles and first generation Ford's and Toyota hybrids are holding up well in Taxi fleets. There are a lot of other gadjets to fail as in all cars but the Ford's have extremely comprehensive failure detection systems. Let's hope those are reliable.


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#34 OFFLINE   jmellen

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

I have  several questions.

1. Does MG1 operates as a motor other than to start the ICE?  I figure it must or it must freewheel as it has to rotate if the ICE is off for one thing.  It doesn't make sense to me that it would act as a generator if the ICE is off (that is, powered by MG2).  There is no useful purpose for that, that I can see.

2. Does someone know the gear counts for the ring, planet and sun gears and/ or the formula for their interaction. I have run into one for the Prius.  I have viewed the very helpful demo/simulator at eahart.com/prius/psd .  I would like to know the 'rules' for the 2013/2014 FFH (RPM ranges, amp ranges, etc.)

3. Does anyone have more insight into the computer logic that controls the power split via the planetary gear.  I woud like to understand the parameters better for ICE only, MG@ ony, ICE and MG2.  At least I would like to know what the variables are like torque at the wheels, accelerator position, SOC, SoC, outside temp, engine temp, HVAC on/off state ( with engine cold and what is 'cold'), etc.


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#35 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:10 PM

In my ScanGauge observation thread I've made some observations about when the car uses the ICE to charge the battery versus not based on observing SOC on the SGII. I don't believe MG1 is ever used to power the wheels. It's used as a generator and to start the ICE. I'm not sure which motor is used in reverse, but like the Prius I believe the FFH ICE will never connect to wheels in reverse.

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#36 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:05 PM

It may also be used during braking. 


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#37 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

It may also be used during braking. 

Which does the regen braking? MG1 (generator motor)? Or MG2 (traction motor)?


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#38 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:28 AM

Which does the regen braking? MG1 (generator motor)? Or MG2 (traction motor)?

Maybe both?  That I dont know.  Would be neat to open one up and to see how it all works.  Knowing the basics of generators, you spin an armature inside a coil, you generate electricity, so either one can be made to generate.  An electric motor is really no different in design, instead of turning the armature with a motor or some other source, you turn it using the coils surrounding it with electricity, creating magnetic fields that alternate.   So by that theory either motor can generate, all depends on how they are wired up and the logic. 

 

 

 

Been wanting to say this

 

Where's Waldo?  maybe he can answer it. 


Edited by acdii, 15 January 2014 - 09:29 AM.

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#39 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

You are right on acdii but even if both could be turned into generators I think only one is used.

Based on this principal you can generate energy back into the grid on large machine with servo motors when they are slowing down.
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#40 OFFLINE   airbusguy

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

All questioned answered on pages 5 to 8
http://www.motorcraf...DSM1303_HEV.pdf
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