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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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What did you drive before getting your FFH?

fusion hybrid previous car drive poll

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119 replies to this topic

Poll: What kind of car did the FFH replace? (111 member(s) have cast votes)

What type of car was replaced?

  1. Mid-size Sedan (33 votes [29.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.73%

  2. Convertible (5 votes [4.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.50%

  3. SUV (14 votes [12.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.61%

  4. Pick-up (10 votes [9.01%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.01%

  5. Minivan (4 votes [3.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.60%

  6. Crossover SUV (5 votes [4.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.50%

  7. MPV (1 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

  8. Compact (16 votes [14.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.41%

  9. Sports Sedan (5 votes [4.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.50%

  10. Luxury Sedan (6 votes [5.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.41%

  11. Full-size Sedan (3 votes [2.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.70%

  12. Other (please comment below) (9 votes [8.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.11%

Where is the car that was replaced from?

  1. American automaker (55 votes [49.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 49.55%

  2. German automaker (7 votes [6.31%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.31%

  3. Japanese automaker (38 votes [34.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 34.23%

  4. Korean automaker (5 votes [4.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.50%

  5. Other European automaker (6 votes [5.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.41%

  6. Other automaker (please comment) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Have you owned an alt fuel vehicle before?

  1. No (82 votes [73.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 73.87%

  2. Yes, conventional hybrid (19 votes [17.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.12%

  3. Yes, diesel (7 votes [6.31%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.31%

  4. Yes, PHEV (1 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

  5. Yes, BEV/EREV (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Yes, other (please comment) (2 votes [1.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.80%

Did you own another hybrid before?

  1. No (89 votes [80.18%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.18%

  2. 2010-12 FFH (6 votes [5.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.41%

  3. TCH (2 votes [1.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.80%

  4. Prius (6 votes [5.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.41%

  5. 2010-12 FFH & a TCH (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 2010-12 FFH & a Prius (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. TCH & a Prius (1 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

  8. 2010-12 FFH, TCH & a Prius (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Ford Escape Hybrid (2 votes [1.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.80%

  10. Honda Civic Hybrid (2 votes [1.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.80%

  11. Honda Insight Hybrid (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  12. Honda Accord Hybrid (1 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

  13. Toyota Highlander Hybrid (1 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

  14. Other hybrid (please comment) (1 votes [0.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.90%

Did you consider non-alternative fuel vehicles when shopping for your FFH?

  1. No, only hybrids, PHEVs and other alternative fuel vehicles were considered (55 votes [49.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 49.55%

  2. Yes, diesel (23 votes [20.72%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.72%

  3. Yes, gas-only cars (33 votes [29.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.73%

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#41 OFFLINE   storksb

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:01 PM

OK my turn to list my cars over the last 15 our so years. Most recent first.

 

2013 FFH

2008 VW GTi

2005 Nissan Murano

2007 Subaru Forester Sport

2003 Subaru Forester Turbo, Japan Spec

2000 Mitsubshi Pajero

2000 Volvo V40

2000 Ford Focus ZTS

1998 Ford Mondeo Ghia

 

There were many more before this but the order is somewhat blurred after all this time.









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#42 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:10 PM

  1. 1991 Chrysler LeBaron Convertible (can you believe it needed 4 transmissions in 5 years?!?!?!)

I can believe it. My parents had a 1989 Dodge Grand Caravan that needed 3 new transmissions. The first 2 were replaced under warranty (since they bought the 100,000 mile extended warranty) and then the fourth they paid to put a rebuilt tranny in. My parents put about 200,000 miles on that van and the tranny that lasted the longest was the rebuilt one. The others were rubbish.


Edited by hybridbear, 13 May 2013 - 09:35 PM.

Current Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm

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Previous Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

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#43 OFFLINE   alpha754293

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:36 PM

I originally had a 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier before getting my Ford Fusion Titanium Hybrid.

 

It had around 133,000 km before I traded it in after I had smacked the bottom of the oil pan and poked a hole the size of two quarters. :( I've always thought that I would get a new car because I'd drive the old one into the ground. I just didn't think that I would do it quite so literally.

 

I did test drive the 2013 Toyota Prius and also the 2013 VW Jetta Hybrid and found critical practical problems with both before I settled on the Fusion.

 

(The problems didn't prevent the functionality of the vehicles, but they bugged me enough that prevented me from buying them.)

 

And I look at everything through the engineer's goggles. And it isn't just to knock them either because they're our competitors, but there were actual legit functional issues (I think) about them.

 

Like the VW Jetta Hybrid - the regen braking system does NOT give a constant braking force as you slow down.

 

If you push on the brake pedal JUST enough to get 100% regen, but then HELD it there, at < 5 mph, the regen braking system will "lets go" and you end up losing the braking force that the regen system gave you. So think about it - you're pulling up to a red light and when it "lets go", you go shooting forward, which forces you to slam on the brakes as you slide into the intersection. Bad. Very bad. (Test drive it. You'll know what I'm talking about.) Don't change your brake pedal position after the regen system "lets go" so you can feel the car shooting forward, then brake as needed to come to a safe and complete stop at the red light.

 

In Michigan, people roll into the intersections often enough that it's mehhh.... But if I were say in downtown Chicago and there were a group of pedestrians waiting to cross - the possibility of you hitting a few of them is quite high because of that. (Which means that you will ALWAYS have to use the actual brakes to stop you instead of maximizing the regen braking capability.)

 

So, to me, that was a HUGE safety concern.

 

It's stuff like that that stopped me from buying them.


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DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.

 

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#44 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:18 PM

We had a 2009 Camry Hybrid that occasionally would do that. My wife thought I was screwing around until it happened to her, then it was, Get RID of this damned car!


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#45 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:38 PM

And I look at everything through the engineer's goggles. And it isn't just to knock them either because they're our competitors, but there were actual legit functional issues (I think) about them.

 

Like the VW Jetta Hybrid - the regen braking system does NOT give a constant braking force as you slow down.

 

If you push on the brake pedal JUST enough to get 100% regen, but then HELD it there, at < 5 mph, the regen braking system will "lets go" and you end up losing the braking force that the regen system gave you. So think about it - you're pulling up to a red light and when it "lets go", you go shooting forward, which forces you to slam on the brakes as you slide into the intersection. Bad. Very bad. (Test drive it. You'll know what I'm talking about.) Don't change your brake pedal position after the regen system "lets go" so you can feel the car shooting forward, then brake as needed to come to a safe and complete stop at the red light.

Very interesting. I'm still hoping to test drive a Jetta Hybrid for fun some day to see what it's like and to see if they all do this or if you just drove a defective one. The other hybrid I'm really curious to see is the new Honda Accord Hybrid that has a 2 motor hybrid system and Honda has been indicating that it will beat the 47/47/47 MPG of the FFH while having more horsepower...

 

I'm curious what you didn't like about the Prius that you considered to be a "critical practical problem". Thanks


Edited by hybridbear, 13 May 2013 - 09:38 PM.

Current Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm

315692.png

 

Previous Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

252543.png167422.png


#46 OFFLINE   hermans

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:24 AM

edit


Edited by hermans, 14 May 2013 - 08:29 AM.

2016 Edge Titanium

2015 Lincoln MKC

2013 MKZ Hybrid

 

"Your comment is in no way productive. Why don't you find something productive to say?" - hybridbear

 


#47 OFFLINE   alpha754293

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:27 AM

Very interesting. I'm still hoping to test drive a Jetta Hybrid for fun some day to see what it's like and to see if they all do this or if you just drove a defective one. The other hybrid I'm really curious to see is the new Honda Accord Hybrid that has a 2 motor hybrid system and Honda has been indicating that it will beat the 47/47/47 MPG of the FFH while having more horsepower...

 

I'm curious what you didn't like about the Prius that you considered to be a "critical practical problem". Thanks

 

The Prius - where the hatch breaks over and drops off in the back - the way that I sit in it meant that that breakover point runs right across my rearview mirror, blocking about 80% of the field of view (from the rearview mirror). So, the plus side is that it's reminiscent of driving a little sports car (think like 1980s Pontiac Fiero). The problem is that in Michigan, people have a really nasty habit of tailgating; which inherently run the risk of you being rearended (I've already been rear-ended once while stopped at a stop light). So being able to see where and when (if) it is coming is kinda important.

 

The rest of the vehicle was fine though.

 

in a related note though, one of the things that I like doing as an engineer is to attend the North American International Auto Show in Detroit every January and I go there not necessarily so much for the cars, but to listen to what people (the general public) have to say about them.

 

The funniest comment that I hear about the Prius - "it looks like a penis". lol..their words. Not mine. And that the styling of the car doesn't look "fun" or whatever (and having to explain to people that the shape and styling of the car is largely driven by the function as opposed to form).

 

But in terms of fuel economy, the car does work.


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DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.

 

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#48 OFFLINE   alpha754293

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

From is post.....

 

"If you push on the brake pedal JUST enough to get 100% regen, but then HELD it there, at < 5 mph, the regen braking system will "lets go" and you end up losing the braking force that the regen system gave you. So think about it - you're pulling up to a red light and when it "lets go", you go shooting forward, which forces you to slam on the brakes as you slide into the intersection. Bad. Very bad. (Test drive it. You'll know what I'm talking about.) Don't change your brake pedal position after the regen system "lets go" so you can feel the car shooting forward, then brake as needed to come to a safe and complete stop at the red light."

 

No no, that problem is on the VW Jetta Hybrid, not the Prius.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.

 

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#49 OFFLINE   alpha754293

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:40 AM

We had a 2009 Camry Hybrid that occasionally would do that. My wife thought I was screwing around until it happened to her, then it was, Get RID of this damned car!

 

My mom's 2010 Camry (non-hybrid) does the same thing - except for a completely totally different reason. It's because as you're slowing down and coming to a light, the transmission will keep downshifting. And normally, that's fine. Except the last like 20 feet or so, where you're dropping below 12-20 mph (20-30 km/h) and it does either a final 3-1 shift or 2-1 shift (haven't been able to identify (by feel) which it is), but it's going into 1st gear that there's a little bit of a tiny torque boost (from the torque multiplication factor of the 1st gear ratio itself) which sends the car forward as well.

 

When I test drove the car with the salesguy and my mom, the sales guy asked me "so...what do you think?" and I told him about that and he gave me some BS response about it being because of the electronic brake force distribution module (which has NOTHING to do with it) - so CLEARLY (as it is with most car salespeople) they don't have a freakin' clue. (Why, in God's name - oh why would you argue with the engineer?) lol...

 

So anyways, my mom bought the car. And now years later, my dad complains about the same thing, and sometimes my mom does too. (It's why when I am driving my mom's Camry - coming to a light, I HAVE to shift into Neutral so that I don't get thrown into the intersection (or that insodoing, I don't have to suddenly slam on the brakes). Then it can downshift all it wants, to its heart's content and it doesn't affect my vehicle's position with respect to the intersection.

 

(And it's like...dude - I pulled the Society of Automotive Engineering (SAE) papers and publications before coming here...)

 

So yeah. (The sales manager and also the sales guy that I was working with when I bought my Fusion hybrid - they were both like "oh...so you probably know wayyyy more about this than I do" - the moment that I told them that a) I'm an engineer and b) I work for Ford.

 

I'd imagine that car dealerships might not like us very much because they can't give their usual marketing/sales schpiel. But that's also why I really highly value and favour salespeople that are just so flat-out brutally honest with ya. If they aren't interested in full disclosures when you ask them something - then that should raise a flag that something fishy's going on.


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DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.

 

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#50 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

Thats how my dealer is with me, They know I know more about the cars than they do. When I go to other dealers I just take what they say and dispose of it, not worth arguing over any of it, or asking any questions. I just get in the car, check it out, take it for a drive and thats it.  When I go to my dealer we talk about everything BUT the cars. They know they dont need to sell me on anything.  Heck they learned more from me on what they sell than they learned from Ford! 


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#51 OFFLINE   alpha754293

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

Thats how my dealer is with me, They know I know more about the cars than they do. When I go to other dealers I just take what they say and dispose of it, not worth arguing over any of it, or asking any questions. I just get in the car, check it out, take it for a drive and thats it.  When I go to my dealer we talk about everything BUT the cars. They know they dont need to sell me on anything.  Heck they learned more from me on what they sell than they learned from Ford! 

 

Well...the advantage with me BEING a Ford engineer - I can probably teach them most of the stuff about the cars. Perhaps some of the super fine detail for everything (say about the Fusion), I might not be able to get into - not without additional research on my part - but it's like when I go to the auto show as well. Especially the Detroit auto show - because there ARE so many engineers that attend them, and a LOT of people work on a LOT of cars (both at the OEM level and also from the supplier base around here) - so I'm sure that all of the people that work the shows end up potentially learning a LOT more than they ever really wanted to.

 

The upside though - usually we're probably the best people to ask cuz we're also usually pretty honest about it all. For some of us, it's our baby - it's our pride-and-joy. And I DO have to admit that it IS kinda fun when you're bringing your friends to the auto show (especially they are car guys - for farrrr longer than I was ever one) and then not only can you now publically show them what you've been working on, but you're also able to tell them about what you've been working on in much greater detail as well.

 

And I have also found that there are "car guys" and then there are "CAR GUYS". (Especially on internet forums).

 

I can't say that I would know everything about my car or all of Ford's cars (and/or Lincolns) or all cars in general. But it does help knowing that I can learn about them in relatively short periods of time. For the most part. But it's fun. I like teaching.

 

P.S. funny is when you walk into a dealership and because you've worked on a particular car so intimately, that you can put it into like the engineering mode that only you might know about (or you out of a very tiny handful of people in the world) and you can like see the "panic face" on the dealership/sales guy as they're so worried that you're going to break something. lol...that's always fun. lol. :D


Edited by alpha754293, 15 May 2013 - 09:38 AM.

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DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed here are solely that of my own and are not representative of Ford Motor Company or its affiliates.

 

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#52 OFFLINE   dalesky

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:01 AM

My first after the service was a 69 Ford Galaxy 2dr with a speed tuned 350hp engine. Great car

Next was an old 4dr Galaxy, that was in amazing condition. I could afford that one, as opposed to the 1st Galaxy.

A Chevy Nova came next, a 2dr, with the six, and a 2 speed tyranny! At least that's what I remember. Think it was a 72.

2 VW Golfs were next, both 4drs with sunroofs and manual tran. Really nice drivers. Lots of QC issues.

About 1983 a nice Dodge Colt (made by Mistubishi) with a dual range 4 spd. Nice hatchback, for a cheap car. 

Also at that time the VW was totaled and for a short time we had an Olds sedan.

I think a Mazda 626 was next about 1984. Another stick trans. 

2 Honda Accords followed, 2 year apart. Again, manual trans. I think a 1996 and a 1998.

Just before the Hondas was a Nissan Stanza, basically a Maxima without the engine. Really well equipped. Kept it 8 years, with just 50M miles on it. Absolutely perfect car

Along with the 96 Honda, to replace the Stanza we got a Maxima, a 2004.

Moved from MN to SC with the Honda and Maxima. 

Replaced the Honda with a 2006 Mustang GT convert, which is a current car.

Replaced the Maxima with the current FFH 2013.


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HyTi Ice storm

black leather
Sony sound
Voice Nav
Moonroof
Driver assist

1st tank 5-20-13


#53 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

Sorry I missed this :(

 

I am 62 (and proud of it LOL)

 

46 Dodge Coupe

54 Buick Special sedan

63 1/2 Galaxie 500 fastback 390 FMX
63 Galaxie 500XL Convertible with a 405 HP 406 three duces all factory
65 F100 highboy 4x4 4 speed and a 390
69 LTD great car
71 LTD Brougham another great car
74 Comet GT 302 4 speed

76 VW type 3 fastback

79 VW diesel Rabbit
70 F100 2WD
77 F100 still have it

74 Corvette Coupe hopped up  Still have it

74 Corvette Convertible numbers matching Still have it
86 Bronco II still have it

86 Buick Park Ave
97 F150 Lariat super cab
99 Expedition Eddie Bauer 4x4
2000 F150 Lariat super cab
2003 Expedition Eddie Bauer 4x4
2005 F150 Lariat super crew
E450 motorhome chassis with V10

2007 Pontiac G6 GT hard top convertible

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid (so far this could very easily be my favorite car ...)

Loved them all ....... :)


Edited by rjent, 15 May 2013 - 10:30 AM.


#54 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:46 AM

Oh man a diesel rabbit!   What, no Vega? :) 


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#55 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:46 PM

God no LOL too chevy for me.  That funky sideways steering wheel ... what was that??????

Oh man a diesel rabbit!   What, no Vega? :)



#56 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

I had 2 of them, one was actually a decent car with no rust. The first one lost the back glass when I turned on the radio.


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#57 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

I had 2 of them, one was actually a decent car with no rust. The first one lost the back glass when I turned on the radio.

But you also bought a Prius .....  :hysterical3: 



#58 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:29 PM

I made a killing on trade in, got back all I paid for it and more. 


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#59 OFFLINE   fusionTX

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:06 PM

I am 51.

My first car was as a sophomore in college. i can't really remember all the car years.

Used Chevy Monza
Used Chrysler LeBaron
New Honda Accord
New Mazda 626
New Jeep Grand Cherokee
2002 Jeep Liberty
2003 Honda Element
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
2013 Ford Fusion Titanium Hybrid

This is my second hybrid. I got one of the very first Camry Hybrids in the inaugural year. Paid MSRP as they were in high demand, and I think, Toyota's only hybrid alternative to the Prius at the time. It was fully loaded ( navigation, pb start, heated seats, sun roof) . No backup Camera that year. Paid 31,000.
Was a lot of money, but the car proved worthy. Sold it for 12,000 on Craigslist the day I picked up my Fusion. It did qualify for a full tax credit of $2,600, which is part of the reason the price was high, and why I needed to get it before the credit was halved.

Seven years after the Camry, paid 33,750 (after rebates) for a fully loaded Fusion Hybrid Titanium.

Only looked at hybrids. Did look at the 2012 Camry Hybrid to see how it looked seven years later, and was not impressed. Actually preferred the finishes and leather in my 2007.

Only other car I considered was the Avalon Hybrid. Test drove a regular Avalon and a hybrid. I liked the leather finish in the Avalon, but to get a fully loaded one, would cost in the 40s, and the Toyota mafia in Houston wasn't really dealing.

The car I really wanted was the Fusion Hybrid. I loved the looks and everything it offered. I really wanted to like this car. I considered the Energi for a second, but the economics didn't add up, and I needed the extra trunk space.
Did not know what to expect with all different mileage information trickling in, but I can now say that I could not be happier about my choice. It's an amazing car. And I see more of them on the road every day.

Edited by fusionTX, 16 May 2013 - 09:19 PM.

  • acdii, rjent and dalesky like this
2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium[list]
[*]Sterling Gray, Navigation, Driver Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control
[*]Navigation, Driver Assist, Park Assist, Moonroof, Trunk Cargo Net

#60 OFFLINE   dalesky

dalesky

    Fusion Hybrid Enthusiast

  • Fusion Hybrid Member
  • 534 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • Location:South Cackalacky, Murrells Inlet
  • Current Vehicle:Mustang GT conv, Fusion HYTI
  • My Hybrid's Year:2013

Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:11 PM

I am 51.

My first car was as a sophomore in college. i can't really remember all the car years.

Used Chevy Monza
Used Chrysler LeBaron
New Honda Accord
New Mazda 626
New Jeep Grand Cherokee
2002 Jeep Liberty
2003 Honda Element
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
2013 Ford Fusion Titanium Hybrid

This is my second hybrid. I got one of the very first Camry Hybrids in the inaugural year. Paid MSRP as they were in high demand, and I think, Toyota's only hybrid alternative to the Prius at the time. It was fully loaded ( navigation, pb start, heated seats, sun roof) . No backup Camera that year. Paid 31,000.
Was a lot of money, but the car proved worthy. Sold it for 12,000 on Craigslist the day I picked up my Fusion.

Seven years after the Camry, paid 33,750 (after rebates) for a fully loaded Fusion Hybrid Titanium.

Only looked at hybrids. Did look at the 2012 Camry Hybrid to see how it looked seven years later, and was not impressed. Actually preferred the finishes and leather in my 2007.

Only other car I considered was the Avalon Hybrid. Test drove a regular Avalon and a hybrid. I liked the leather finish in the Avalon, but to get a fully loaded one, would cost in the 40s, and the Toyota mafia in Houston wasn't really dealing.

The car I really wanted was the Fusion Hybrid. I loved the looks and everything it offered. I really wanted to like this car. I considered the Energi for a second, but the economics didn't add up, and I needed the extra trunk space.
Did not know what to expect with all different mileage information trickling in, but I can now say that I could not be happier about my choice. It's an amazing car. And I see more of them on the road every day.

Even here in the Myrtle Beach SC area they are showing up more frequently. I know some are rental, since a LOT of tourists come here year round. Still, when I see something besides a plain jane SE I know it is not a rental. Love driving mine, and even have passed up driving the GT convert a couple of nice days just to wheel the FFH around some more.


HyTi Ice storm

black leather
Sony sound
Voice Nav
Moonroof
Driver assist

1st tank 5-20-13






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