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"High motor temperature" warning message and chime appears/disappears frequently


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20 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   yky

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

Hello fellow Fusion Hybrid forum members!  I just purchased a used grey 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid (base trim) w/ approximately 48,000 miles and have been very pleased with its performance.  The car runs great and gets much better gas mileage than my old car (a 2009 Hyundai Elantra SE).

 

The one thing that is slightly troublesome is the yellow/orange-ish warning message (always accompanied by an audible warning chime that sounds one low note and one high note several times and is quiet but noticeable) that appears periodically.

 

The funny thing is that the warning message appears and disappears so fast I didn't even notice it the first few times.  It finally stayed just long enough (but not more than half a second) so that I could read the actual message which said "High motor temperature".

 

Looking up the error message on this forum and other Internet sites, most people who have experienced problems after the message appeared have indicated that they needed to have the "Electric Motor Cooling System Water Pump..Part number 8c419" component replaced.  However, many people who reported having that problem were driving Ford Escape Hybrids (FEH) instead.  The FEH M/E cooling system, as I've also read on multiple Internet sites, operates differently from the FFH M/E cooling system.  The FFH high-voltage battery is air-cooled using cabin air, while the FEH high-voltage battery is water-cooled using the same water pump as the electric motors.

 

I have tried to drive in such a fashion so as to better isolate the problem, and I have noticed the following quirks.  If I drive slowly in EV mode, the message never appears.  If I drive at typical city or highway speeds, the message appears periodically but never remains for more than half a second (and no other warning lights light - e.g. the wrench icon or the engine icon).  If I drive using EV mode on the highway (at under 47 mph), the message rarely appears.  However, I can usually reproduce the problem when braking on the highway: if I apply brakes (the regenerative braking icon appears) and slow down to a stop or near stop and then press the gas pedal to accelerate, the warning message usually always flashes and the warning chime almost always sounds.

 

I have several questions, but my first and foremost question is this: can any other Fusion Hybrid drivers/owners/mechanics/etc. confirm that this usually an indication that the MECS water pump (the part referenced above: 8c419) is faulty or failing?

 

Should I be concerned about it even though the warning message never remains on the screen (if it even appears, it just flashes)?  I can live with the warning chime.  If the issue is with the MECS water pump starting to fail, then should not driving in EV mode exacerbate the problem and leave the warning message permanently on the dash?  Since I have noticed it especially often after braking from highway speeds and then accelerating, does this help narrow down the cause of the problem?  If the problem is a flaky or faulty temperature sensor, is it possible to adjust the warning temperature before the message appears a little higher?

 

Another major question I have is: would this water pump be considered part of the "powertrain" system for the vehicle?  The original Ford 60 months/50,000 mile powertrain warranty is still in effect, so if the water pump is part of the powertrain system, could I have it repaired or replaced under warranty (I also have a 60 days/2,000 mile powertrain warranty from the dealer I purchased as I live in NJ which has good used car laws)?

 

My final question is semi-related but applies to the CVT transmission of the vehicle instead.  I recently purchased a 3rd party warranty from the Auto Warranty Agency.  Does anybody have familiarity with 3rd party warranties (esp. from the Auto Warranty Agency) and their coverage?  In particular, the warranty contract states that the transmission is covered (and I did pay the hybrid surcharge).  However, the warranty did not specifically address CVT transmissions.  Does anybody know if CVT transmissions would be covered by transmission warranties?  The line from the contract reads something like "All internal components of the transmission that require lubrication for operation".  I am a bit worried because I read that line aloud at work, and a coworker said CVT transmissions do not require any lubrication and thus would not be covered.

 

My thanks in advance to any fellow forum members who could shed any light on any of these topics.

 

 

 

 

 

 









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#2 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

Take it to the dealer ASAP. This is an engine or electric motor overheat warning. See page 20 of the FFH Owners Guide. It's serious and I hope covered by the powertrain or hybrid warranties. The CVT is covered by the hybrid warranty. There should be a DTC stored. You can check the coolant fluid levels first but if they're down it means you have a leak and the dealer needs to find it. If the engine thermometer gauge is right in the middle, it's probably the electrical cooling system. Don't delay.
Further reading of your post about regenerative braking producing the warning pretty much points to the electrical cooling system.

Edited by lolder, 08 January 2013 - 09:45 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:54 AM

Yes get it fixed, much less expensive to repair now than when something actually pops from overheating.  Don't go anywhere except to Ford on this one. 


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#4 OFFLINE   yky

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

Updated - 02-05-2013: the problem turned out to be a defective connector to the electrical motor.  The Ford dealer replaced it under the NJ used car warranty, and everything's been running fine since!


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#5 OFFLINE   rrlyman

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 04:21 PM

I have the same problem with a 2011 Lincoln MKZ hybrid that is essentially the 2010 Ford Fusion.  The dealer has had it for 2 days and cannot figure it out.  Do you happen to know what connector to the electrical motor was bad and also how they located it?

 

Thanks



#6 OFFLINE   girney

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:41 PM

having similar problem however i can not read the message as it is too quick. gonna take it to ford and see if it is same problem. was the defect a major issue that needed attention or a minor problem?



#7 OFFLINE   FordService

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 01:37 PM

having similar problem however i can not read the message as it is too quick. gonna take it to ford and see if it is same problem. was the defect a major issue that needed attention or a minor problem?

Let me know what your dealer says, along with your mileage. :)

Meagan



#8 OFFLINE   Nufane

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 08:02 PM

I have the EXACT same problem with my 2010 Fusion Hybrid.  I actually linked my dealer to this thread in an effort to expedite their troubleshooting.

 

I'm at ~82,000 miles right now.



#9 OFFLINE   Nufane

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 12:13 PM

Let me know what your dealer says, along with your mileage. :)

Meagan

 

So just talked to my dealer re: this Meagan...  They're saying ~$700 to fix it.  This seems like an oddly expensive fix for some bad/faulty wiring.



#10 OFFLINE   MrLincolnMkz

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:58 PM

Hello, I have the exact same issue as described above. To those above stating to go to dealer asap that it's an overheating error and could cause further problems, I want to clarify that is not the case. We are not actually experiencing the overheating, when you do experience the overheating the error remains for longer than a second. What we experience is more of a flash of the message usually so fast it's difficult to read the message along with the annoying chime. Trust me been driving this way for months, and there is no actual over heating going on. The fact that it's a connector or sensor is highly more likely. Finally have some time to fix it so will let you guys know what I find.

#11 OFFLINE   marco_er

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 12:28 PM

Hello, same problem in a Fusion Hybrid 2011 in Mexico with 35,000miles. At the beginning it was appearing once every 2-3 weeks and as time passes it is becoming more frequent, now I’m getting the message 2-3 times per ride. I’ve been driving like this for about 4 months. Has anyone determined which is the faulty connector/wiring and its location?

 

Thanks



#12 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 12:46 PM

It's not necessarily a faulty connection. There may be an overheat condition. Only the Ford dealer can tell.



#13 OFFLINE   marco_er

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:38 AM

I took the car to the dealer to fix this fault. As mentioned before, it wasn't an overheating problem. It turned out to be the motor coolant temp sensor conector that was grounding. It was a $300 fix.

#14 OFFLINE   jfutter

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 10:10 PM

I have been getting the same occasional chimes for a few months now, now happening more frequently. Just recently saw the display flash, then finally long enough to see the "High Motor Temperature" as well. My 2011 has 168,000 miles, have been very pleased with it. Bringing it in to dealer tomorrow along with this thread. Will report back what happens.



#15 OFFLINE   jfutter

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 10:06 AM

C/S Engine Temp High Warning Lamp    IDS Test P0A01:81-28  Motor Electronic Coolant Temp Sensor Circuit Range, Performance     Removed lower engine splash shield, checked connector, found wires broke.  Replaced sensor and connector, refilled coolant   cleared codes.  Verified repairs.

 

3F1Z-12A648-A  Sender Asy

3U2Z-14S411-HYB  Wire Asy

VC-10-A2 Antifreeze

 

Parts $101.69   Labor  $247

 

Seems to be working now!


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#16 OFFLINE   rwagner2000

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 06:37 PM

I have a 2012 Fusion Hybird with just under 50K miles.  I recently started getting the warning chimes and a very brief "flash" of a warning light.  I continued to drive the vehicle for a couple of weeks and in the last two days the warning chimes and warning lights started going off almost all the time.  I am now able to make out the warning light as "high motor temperature".  My temperature gauge has always stayed in the normal range.  I took into the Ford dealership and they said initially that it was a fuel pump.  It gets much worse than that.  After installing the new fuel pump they took it for a test drive and found something much more problematic......I now need a new transmission!  Thankfully the car is under warranty but I had to abandon my car in the city I am currently working and will have to return to pick up the car in four or five days once it is repaired.  I'm surprised that I needed a new transmission on a vehicle with 50K miles.  What a pain. 



#17 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 10:48 PM

This is one of the first reports of a transmission failure in the 2010-12 FFH's. I wonder if it actually was a true failure as the "High Motor Temperature" problem has previously been solved with a software update to the motor/electronics cooling pump speed control. The initial diagnoses of a "fuel pump" is so off the wall wrong that I'm suspicious of the dealers competence. The temperature gauge is for the ICE, not the ( Electric ) "motor". It is a completely separate cooling system.


Edited by lolder, 10 May 2016 - 10:52 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   bboyd

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 09:58 PM

Thanks jfutter for solving my 2011 Lincoln MKZ "High Motor Temperature" warning problem. I took your post (thanks for putting the part #) to the dealer and BINGO, the problem was FINALLY solved. This was my third attempt at trying to get the problem fixed and your post was exactly the reason they were able to fix it. Now, I am driving without the flashing and chiming and I have my sanity back. This must be a defect with this vehicle. Anyway, thanks again for fixing my problem.



#19 OFFLINE   LJI

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:36 AM

My daughter had the same problem with her 2012 Fusion Hybrid..."High Motor Temperature" warning and chime would appear and disappear so fast it could barely be read. Thanks to this forum I was able to fix the problem. Thanks, jfutter for the info about the temperature sensor and wiring assembly. And thanks, bboyd for confirming. Here's a little more detail about what I found. First, I called the Ford Dealer with the VIN to check availability of the parts that jfutter listed. It took a little while for them to find the temp sender (or sensor) that is for the electric motor cooling (not the engine temperature sender.) The dealer asked if this temp sender was located in the bottom of the transaxle. I said I didn't know because I hadn't looked at it yet, and have never worked on a hybrid. Then I gave them the part numbers that jfutter listed and those were it..temperature sending unit 3F1Z-12A648-A at the bottom of the transaxle. The wiring assy 3U2Z-14S411-HYB would take them a day or two to get, so I decided to start with the sensor and go from there. I removed the lower engine splash shield, and the smaller shield in front of it. The sending unit was easy to locate in the bottom of the transaxle. The first thing I noticed was the wire going to to sending unit was extremely tight and causing extreme tension on the sending unit (probably a factory installation defect). After removing the connector to the temp sender, I removed a couple of the strap fasteners on the wiring harness that the sender pair of wires go into (about 6 inches away) and cut the harness open to get at the wires. One of the wires had a noticeable bend in it from the extreme tension on the wire. I used a multimeter probe and poked through the insulation of the suspected wire and checked continuity from this point to the sender connector and found NO CONTINUITY. But if I moved it some it would make a connection. Then I carefully cut the wire insulation off the wire with the noticeable bend (wire color might have been the purple with a green or brown stripe, can't remember for sure) and found broken copper wire inside. There was so much tension on that wire that it broke the copper strands inside the wire insulation, and movement would cause the strands to make and break connection. The other wire going to the sender was ok. I cut the wire at the bad place and added a couple of inches of wire inbetween to take the strain off the wire, crimped with connectors, taped all back with electrical tape, including the harness, refilled coolant reservoir.  Problem solved, no more warning or chimes. I wouldn't have had to buy the sending unit to fix it.

 

     Parts              3F1Z-12A648-A  Sender Asy                  $21.60

          Motorcraft Special Orange Coolant 1 gal premixed    $13.36          

          

 

 

 



#20 OFFLINE   Campenella

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 12:47 PM

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this discussion.  Earlier in April my 2010 FFH started to "chime", it was so quick and random that I could not even come close to making a determination as to the cause.  A quick search on the internet led me to this discussion.  The symptoms described here fit my situation exactly.  Last Friday I called my dealer, explained the situation and sent the string of discussions.  They didn't want to order the part without seeing/hearing the car first, however a part was in the area.  They hadn't heard of this problem before, I never like to be the first in this type of situation.  They wanted to perform a diagnosis first, $170, I told them they could but if it didn't show something other than what I described as the problem I was not paying for that - they agreed.  They didn't find anything on Monday but wanted to drive it, so it was there on Tuesday.  I again reminded them that chances were slim it would be recreated.  In my case it only chimed when outside temperatures were over 70, but still rarely.  Tuesday results were the same, just as I predicted no chime.  They ask if I still wanted to have the part replaced anyway - of course I did.  So now we are to Wednesday.  They replace the part, only to have the Check Engine light come on, so more testing.  There was a bare wire "upstream" from the targeted cause.  Four days later my car is fixed.  They want me to check back in, in the event it is fixed so they can note this in their files since it was a first.  Also they mentioned that the antifreeze listed above was the wrong type.  Thanks for the help, should have made this a quicker fix, but I guess they got some training too.






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