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FFH engine noise


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   mydodgers88

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:35 PM

OK, I have 20k miles on my 2010 and it has started making a new noise. When you are just cruising at around 40 mph and the motor switches over to gas, if you are just feathering the throttle you can hear a whistling sound. Took it into the dealer and surprise-the mechanic heard the same sound! They said they had never heard that before but it definitely was not normal so they would need to keep it a couple of days to diagnose the problem. Three days later they changed their mind and said that it is normal. They also said they test drove a new one on the lot and were able to duplicate the noise. Anyone else have this issue? Any information would be helpful. TIA, Mike







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#2 OFFLINE   mort

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 10:08 PM

Hi mydodgers88,
My FFH (12000 mi) has always made a noise maybe like you describe, a whistle or whine. Highway speed on smooth road. I think it is the tires. I think it is more noticeable on a slight right turn.
-mort

#3 OFFLINE   paulbuck

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 12:52 PM

OK, I have 20k miles on my 2010 and it has started making a new noise. When you are just cruising at around 40 mph and the motor switches over to gas, if you are just feathering the throttle you can hear a whistling sound. Took it into the dealer and surprise-the mechanic heard the same sound! They said they had never heard that before but it definitely was not normal so they would need to keep it a couple of days to diagnose the problem. Three days later they changed their mind and said that it is normal. They also said they test drove a new one on the lot and were able to duplicate the noise. Anyone else have this issue? Any information would be helpful. TIA, Mike

If you look in the Hybrid folder that came with the owners manual, it says in there that a 'whistling' noise is normal. Mine's had it since day 1.
What, me worry?

#4 OFFLINE   mydodgers88

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:59 AM

I'll have to check the manual tomorrow when I get home. Thanks

#5 OFFLINE   JavaOops

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:10 PM

If you can't fix it, document it.



#6 OFFLINE   Vlad Soare

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 01:49 PM

Talking about engine noises, I noticed something odd. 

When the engine starts due to my accelerating a bit harder (say, just hard enough to exceed the EV threshold), sometimes it also charges the HVB as well (as indicated by the arrow above the battery gauge). At other times, both the engine and the electric motor are used together, and an arrow appears below the battery gauge, indicating that the HVB is discharging. That's normal behaviour. But here comes the strange thing. In the first case the ICE can be clearly heard. In the second I can barely hear anything. The ICE is much, much more silent when it works together with the electric motor than when it delivers all the power by itself.

I suspect it might be related to the active noise cancellation. It feels as if the ANC did a great job in the second case, but not in the first case, if that makes any sense.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 



#7 OFFLINE   mwr

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 07:17 PM

The ICE is much, much more silent when it works together with the electric motor than when it delivers all the power by itself.

 

Why wouldn't that just be the normal case; the ICE is working harder when it's powering the car and also charging the HVB (#1) and working much less when it shares powering the car with the electric motor (#2).


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#8 OFFLINE   Vlad Soare

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:42 PM

I think the difference in sound level is too great to be explained just by the higher load. 

I read in another thread that the ICE needs about 14-15 HP to drive the generator. That's barely 10% of its rated power. It's not like it had to work extremely hard to charge the HVB. On the other hand, if you drive a regular, non-hybrid car with a manual transmission, and you accelerate suddenly without downshifting, the engine must suddenly work much harder, but its sound doesn't change (at least not to a noticeable degree). So why would a hybrid's ICE sound dramatically different with a bit of extra load?


Edited by Vlad Soare, 31 August 2017 - 11:44 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   mwr

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:51 PM

I think the difference in sound level is too great to be explained just by the higher load. 

I read in another thread that the ICE needs about 14-15 HP to drive the generator. That's barely 10% of its rated power. It's not like it had to work extremely hard to charge the HVB. On the other hand, if you drive a regular, non-hybrid car with a manual transmission, and you accelerate suddenly without downshifting, the engine must suddenly work much harder, but its sound doesn't change (at least not to a noticeable degree). So why would a hybrid's ICE sound dramatically different with a bit of extra load?

In my opinion, it's not a "bit of extra load", but instead a big difference in load on the ICE. My FFH does the same thing and I love the lack of engine noise when in your #2 mode. I wish there were a way to "prefer" that mode :-)


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#10 OFFLINE   Vlad Soare

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:03 AM

The ICE is rated at 140 HP. An extra load of 14-15 HP is just ten percent of that. I wouldn't call that a big difference. Besides, there's still the question of why the engine of a regular car doesn't sound differently, nor louder, when you step on the gas (which actually puts a higher load on it than the generator puts on our ICE).

That's why I suspect it might have something to do with the ANC.



#11 OFFLINE   aschulz261

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 05:50 PM

My guess would be that in scenario #1, the engine is running in it's atkinson cycle and you will get some noise back through the intake because of that.  In scenario #2, it's in it's power mode and the atkinson intake noise is gone.



#12 OFFLINE   mwr

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 05:56 PM

My guess would be that in scenario #1, the engine is running in it's atkinson cycle and you will get some noise back through the intake because of that.  In scenario #2, it's in it's power mode and the atkinson intake noise is gone.

I thought the ICE always operated as an Atkinson-cycle engine. What's this non-Atkinson cycle "power mode".


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#13 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:28 PM

They've acoustically tuned the intake tubing to have the least Atkinson cycle noise somewhere between 40-70 mph. That's what those strange plastic shapes are connected to the plastic intake tubes.



#14 OFFLINE   aschulz261

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 01:42 AM

The Atkinson cycle isn't a TRUE Atkinson cycle.  It is an approximation accomplished by using variable valve timing to close the intake valve very late. It is purely for efficiency, not power.  When the ICE needs to produce maximum power, the intake cam is rotated back to a more normal position.



#15 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 06:40 AM

I'm not sure Ford does that otherwise the ICE would have higher rated horsepower.



#16 OFFLINE   aschulz261

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:49 PM

180-ish normally aspirated 2.0 liter is pretty decent.  That's NOT going to happen with an Atkinson cycle.  The modern versions that are being referred to "Atkinson" cycle engines are really a modified Otto cycle that simulate an Atkinson cycle engine.  That is accomplished with variable valve timing.

 

When a large amount of power is not required, BUT, the ICE needs to be running, it shifts to the Atkinson cycle for fuel efficiency.  (This is most of the time the ICE is running in this car, btw)  When a large amount of power is required, it shifts back to a normal Otto cycle for power.



#17 OFFLINE   Vlad Soare

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:05 AM

Even if that were true, it would still not explain the noise difference I'm talking about. The Atkinson cycle is noisier. So the engine would have to be noisier with low loads (that is, when it's assisted by the electric motor, and the generator is not driven) than at higher loads (when it also drives the generator, and the electric motor doesn't cooperate), while in reality it's the other way around.

Besides, it seems to me the sound of the engine is always the same. It's just the loudness that varies. I believe reverting to an Otto cycle would also change the sound itself.


Edited by Vlad Soare, 07 September 2017 - 10:10 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:13 AM

To my knowledge Ford does not shift their hybrids back to the Otto cycle otherwise the rated HP would be higher. Some other hybrids may.






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