Intergrated Key FOB

[scottss80]

Well, I just gave my Escape to my daughter and bought a 2007 Fusion SE, (Love it). I only have one key. The dealership near me wants about $155.00 to cut and program a new integrated key, ouch! A local locksmith can cut and program a regular chip key for $65.00, but they don't have the integrated key. So can I have them cut a key and use the old style key fob that I believed they used on the 06 model for a period of time, or is the integrated key the only way to go? I suppose I could buy an integrated (uncut) key online and have a locksmith cut an program it, but having a separate fob from the key is no big deal to me, I just don't feel comfortable with only one key.

 

Thanks Scott

Edited May 1, 2010 by scottss80

[rpreuss]

Well, I just gave my Escape to my daughter and bought a 2007 Fusion SE, (Love it). I only have one key. The dealership near me wants about $155.00 to cut and program a new integrated key, ouch! A local locksmith can cut and program a regular chip key for $65.00, but they don't have the integrated key. So can I have them cut a key and use the old style key fob that I believed they used on the 06 model for a period of time, or is the integrated key the only way to go? I suppose I could by an integrated (uncut) key online and have a locksmith cut an program it, but having a separate fob from the key is no big deal to me, I just don't feel comfortable with only one key.

 

Thanks Scott

 

If you only have one coded key, you have to go to the dealer to get the second key programmed into the car. No matter who actually supplies and cuts the key.

[scottss80]

That's what I thought to, but this locksmith says they can cut and program a second key, even if I have only one key.

[akirby]

That's what I thought to, but this locksmith says they can cut and program a second key, even if I have only one key.

 

Only if the locksmith has a Ford diagnostic computer.

[danager]

Only if the locksmith has a Ford diagnostic computer.

 

 

Not entirely true... some locksmiths will use a device like this: http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key_systems/products/automotive/cloning/tex_code.aspx

[akirby]

Not entirely true... some locksmiths will use a device like this: http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key_systems/products/automotive/cloning/tex_code.aspx

 

I don't see how that would work in this case. The new key has a specific code that can't be changed AFAIK and the ford computer needs to see 2 different keys with different codes - otherwise you could just put the same key in twice and that doesn't work.

[rpreuss]

I don't see how that would work in this case. The new key has a specific code that can't be changed AFAIK and the ford computer needs to see 2 different keys with different codes - otherwise you could just put the same key in twice and that doesn't work.

 

 

If that thing can really change the code in a key, then it would defeat the whole purpose of the system. Parking lot attendant makes a really complete duplicate of your key, including the embedded chip, and can steal your car anytime in the future. :redcard:

[akirby]

If that thing can really change the code in a key, then it would defeat the whole purpose of the system. Parking lot attendant makes a really complete duplicate of your key, including the embedded chip, and can steal your car anytime in the future. :redcard:

 

It can't change the key code - only duplicate an existing one and possibly download it to a programmable key. But I doubt the programmable key would work. As you say, that would really defeat the security.

[danager]

Just because you cannot understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. There are a number of locksmiths using products similar. They have been on the market since these keys have been in use. When installin remote starters, if a customer only had one key, we would send them to the local locksmith. Reading up a little more, it looks like they work on fixed code keys, so not the greatest solution the Securilock keys - but possible. There are some other systems out there that will allow a tech into the key programming features. The scan tool that Ford uses is very expensive because it does so much, single function tools are quite a bit cheaper.

 

http://www.americanautolock.com/RW4%20Transponder%20Key%20Duplicator.pdf

[scottss80]

I went to the locksmith they were closed today, Saturday May 1st. I have Monday off, so I'm going to go by there on Monday and see if they can really duplicate a 2nd working key (chipped, but no key fob), and then I guess we will have the answer. If they can do that, I will also ask them if they are able to cut the integrated key fob that Ford uses? It looks like I can find a uncut integrated key for about $40.00. So if I can do that I should be able to have 2 keys for about.... $110.00, the $65.00 for the chipped key only and then the integrated key fob, which I would be able to program myself, if I have two working keys. I will let everyone know what happens Monday.

 

My original question was, would a separate key fob work on the Ford Fusion? The question got kind of side tracked but since no one said, "yeah, I did that", I guess I got my answer anyway. Interesting thread, didn't know it would take that turn, now I'm really curious if this locksmith can do this, and how are they able to do it, if they can?

 

Thanks!

 

Scott

Edited May 1, 2010 by scottss80

[metallicred09]

I went to the locksmith they were closed today, Saturday May 1st. I have Monday off, so I'm going to go by there on Monday and see if they can really duplicate a 2nd working key (chipped, but no key fob), and then I guess we will have the answer. If they can do that, I will also ask them if they are able to cut the integrated key fob that Ford uses? It looks like I can find a uncut integrated key for about $40.00. So if I can do that I should be able to have 2 keys for about.... $110.00, the $65.00 for the chipped key only and then the integrated key fob, which I would be able to program myself, if I have two working keys. I will let everyone know what happens Monday.

 

My original question was, would a separate key fob work on the Ford Fusion? The question got kind of side tracked but since no one said, "yeah, I did that", I guess I got my answer anyway. Interesting thread, didn't know it would take that turn, now I'm really curious if this locksmith can do this, and how are they able to do it, if they can?

 

Thanks!

 

Scott

 

If i were you I would get the 2nd key at the dealer. At least you know it would work for the life of the car. Your taking a big chance to let a locksmith do it. Its your call.

[Snowball 2010]

Hi guys, I've been following this topic, not that I'm confused but I'd like to know how this turns out. I was always under the impression that you could only get replacement and/or doubles from the dealer, that is what I was told when I bought my 2010 Fusion. If that's not the case and you could get a double from a locksmith,

well locksmiths are bonded here in Canada. That means that they are no allowed to duplicate any key that has a security code involved without proper identification. That means photo id, driver's licence and registration of the vehicle would be required, failure to provide id to the satisfaction of the locksmith would result in not getting a double done. Now, let's not be so naive, money talks. If there is a security system to keep thieves away, it doesn't take long for the antidote to come out on the market. Happy motoring to all!!!

[akirby]

Just because you cannot understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. There are a number of locksmiths using products similar. They have been on the market since these keys have been in use. When installin remote starters, if a customer only had one key, we would send them to the local locksmith. Reading up a little more, it looks like they work on fixed code keys, so not the greatest solution the Securilock keys - but possible. There are some other systems out there that will allow a tech into the key programming features. The scan tool that Ford uses is very expensive because it does so much, single function tools are quite a bit cheaper.

 

http://www.americanautolock.com/RW4%20Transponder%20Key%20Duplicator.pdf

 

All this can do is duplicate an existing key. The Ford computer keeps the key codes in memory. You can't get the computer to read a NEW key without interfacing to the Ford computer and I don't believe this device can do that. If you just want another key then this might work. If you want to take a new key and get the computer to recognize it then this doesn't seem to be able to do that. That's all I was saying.

[nella1]

FYI about the key FOB

 

A ford focus key fob will work!!! I have a 07 fusion that I purchased and only received one key. I had 2 keys regular pats keys cut and programed by my local Ford dealer. And just for the heck of it I tried to program my focus key fob to the car. It works fine.

On programing the keys, you may be able to haggle with the dealer a little on price. Most dealers charge 1hour laber, some only charge 1/2 hr labor.

 

Hope this helps!!!

[dasFusion]

If i were you I would get the 2nd key at the dealer. At least you know it would work for the life of the car. Your taking a big chance to let a locksmith do it. Its your call.

 

My local service dept. says a key falls under the "accessories" portion of the warranty and is only covered for something like 20,000 km / 1 yr.

[bbf2530]

My local service dept. says a key falls under the "accessories" portion of the warranty and is only covered for something like 20,000 km / 1 yr.

 

Hi dasFusion. :D The two keys that an owner receives with the car, from the Factory, are covered under Warranty for defects in workmanship and material for 3 years/36,000 miles (4 years/50,000 for Lincoln). They are not "accessories".

:D

Accessories are parts that you purchase from the Dealership separately from the new car purchase. For example If a person was to buy a third key on their own a month after purchasing the car, that would be an "accessory". Your local Service Department is either misinformed or simply trying to make an extra buck off you.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[scottss80]

OK, I just got back from the locksmith...The answer is..Drum roll please....

 

 

 

YES..............

 

Yes you can duplicate a key with only one key...... Here's what happened. Originally they thought they could use a Ford key with transponder chip, but they couldn't. They had to use a blank Ford H84 key without transponder (has a place inside the key to put a chip in). Then put in a separate transponder chip, (which is then sealed in the key), JMA Key TP20.

 

Here is exactly how my receipt list it.

SDD programing $ 45.00

Key Blank, Ford H84 W/O Transponder $14.95

Transponder Chip, JMA Key TP20 $ 13.00

 

So with tax it was 78.97, originally quoted $64.95 over the phone when they thought they could use the blank Ford key with built in transponder chip. If I recall right what the locksmith said, if they had used a Ford key, or I had brought them an integrated key (for my 2nd key) then the computer in the car would have thought there was only one key, even though I had two, don't hold me on that thought, at that moment I was calculating the cost and whether it was more cost effective to have them do it ,or go to Ford. Being a man, and only being able to do one task at a time (unlike women who can do 1/2 a dozen things at once) I might not have got that completely right.

 

So what they did is clone, or guess you could say copy the key code, or it was able to read the keys code off the computer in the car. not sure if I worded that right (edited....and I didn't word this right.....see next post from me). If I thought that someone had another key to my car, and might like to take the car back (I'm not worried about that) I would have to go to Ford and had them reprogram the codes and make a new (2nd) key, so that it wouldn't be a problem. If I want the keys code reprogrammed I have to go to Ford. So if you think for some reason your keys code has been compromised, It appears for the most part that I have knowledge of, only Ford can do that.

 

So my thought is this. I can buy a new uncut integrated key for $46.24 including shipping, the locksmith says he can cut that key for $12.50 (hey probably get it cut cheaper, but they were up front with me on everything and showed me their books on what they could and couldn't do with this key). I couldn't get the two Ford dealerships that I asked to cut me any slack on a new integrated key $155.00 plus tax = $167.78 So adding all the cost of the way I'm thinking

 

Key from locksmith $78.97

Uncut new integrated key $46.24

Cutting integrated key $13.53 including tax

 

Programing it myself and not taking it to Ford for less money, $priceless$

 

Total amount $138.74

 

That's a savings of $29.04 and I have 3 keys, 2 integrated key fobs instead of just 2 integrated key fobs.

 

 

I made sure I asked, would I be able to program a new integrated key, they said yes, absolutely, because the cars computer sees that there are two separate keys, just like if I had Ford cut a transponder key, and not changed the programing codes.

 

And seeing from one response that a Ford Focus separate key FOB worked for someone else I could go that route and save even more, I have found a separate key fob for 18.98, plus 4.99 shipping. It's made for the 2006 Ford Fusion, (they did use one in 2006) supposed to be good for 2007, and 2008 Fusion's also, and it's the same key fob used for the Focus which Nella 1 said works on their 2007 Fusion (by the way thanks for the info Nella 1). The total cost of that would be $102.94, a savings of $64.84 from what Ford wanted with the integrated key.

 

 

So there's the answer....Yes it can be done. I have used both keys since I got back in every possible way to make sure they both worked, they do......

 

 

The big thing for me at this point is I'm glad I have two working keys, I travel a lot (every week, flying) and I would hate to have only one key, and lose it and have to have my car towed to Ford for a new key, because I only had one key!

 

In hind sight, maybe I could have had Ford just cut and program a transponder key for possibility near the same price has the locksmith did it for, I will have to ask Ford what the cost of that is? Then bought a new uncut integrated key, have it cut and programed it myself, that might be an option of near the same price. I have to go by Ford today and get some Premium ATF fluid, to do a drain and refill, unless of course I get Toyota T-IV ATF instead, (Oops............ that's a whole other can of worms, living life on the edge, aren't I)? Actually my Ford house has XT-8-QAW "Premium ATF" for $5.79 a quart, so don't worry sticking with Ford, didn't want to get anyone's heart beat up!

 

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Scott

Edited May 3, 2010 by scottss80

[akirby]

Ok - let's try this one more time. What you did was DUPLICATE your existing key, which works fine as far as having a spare and it should do everything the original key does. But as far as your Fusion knows you still only have ONE key so you would still not be able to buy another regular key and have the vehicle learn the new one.

 

Each key has a unique code and the factory has the computer learn each of the two original keys at the factory. If you have two working keys (with different codes) then you can add a 3rd key yourself. In that case the computer reads the code of the 3rd key and stores it as a working code. In this case when you put in the 2nd key to do the programming it has the same code as the first key so the computer will see it as one key inserted twice and won't allow the programming.

[scottss80]

Ok - let's try this one more time. What you did was DUPLICATE your existing key, which works fine as far as having a spare and it should do everything the original key does. But as far as your Fusion knows you still only have ONE key so you would still not be able to buy another regular key and have the vehicle learn the new one.

 

Each key has a unique code and the factory has the computer learn each of the two original keys at the factory. If you have two working keys (with different codes) then you can add a 3rd key yourself. In that case the computer reads the code of the 3rd key and stores it as a working code. In this case when you put in the 2nd key to do the programming it has the same code as the first key so the computer will see it as one key inserted twice and won't allow the programming.

 

 

OK, I just got back from the locksmith a second time, I went and asked him about this. He said this is not a cloned key, I used that wording in my last post. That when they hooked up their devise to my cars computer, (first it ran pulling information from the computer for about 15 minutes) then he was able to program the new key using this devise and it shows has a separate key. He said the combination of using the transponder that they put in the key is what their book showed to do. So this key has it's unique code, that is different from the 1st key I have. So from this point on I can program myself,a third or 4th key (up to 4 with the integrated key, 8 total) and not have to go to Ford, because this is not a cloned key. I know Ford is saying it's different, and can't be possible but I have no reason to doubt this locksmith, this was a big place, and they have a lot of resources.

 

Also he told me he tried to do his bosses Fusion Hybrid, and the codes were different and he was unable to do it on that vehicle. Whether that was because it was a hybrid or something has changed in the 2009, or 2010 model year I don't know. I know the hybrid is 2010, but it came out in March 2009, so it's possible these year models may be different, or just could be the hybrid just FYI.

 

Has a wise man once told me, "technology over promises and under performs"!

Edited May 3, 2010 by scottss80

[akirby]

OK, I just got back from the locksmith a second time, I went and asked him about this. He said this is not a cloned key, I used that wording in my last post. That when they hooked up their devise to my cars computer, (first it ran pulling information from the computer for about 15 minutes) then he was able to program the new key using this devise and it shows has a separate key. He said the combination of using the transponder that they put in the key is what their book showed to do. So this key has it's unique code, that is different from the 1st key I have. So from this point on I can program myself,a third or 4th key (up to 4 with the integrated key, 8 total) and not have to go to Ford, because this is not a cloned key. I know Ford is saying it's different, and can't be possible but I have no reason to doubt this locksmith, this was a big place, and they have a lot of resources.

 

Has a wise man once told me, technology over promises and under performs!

 

If that's true then they have access to the Ford computer just like the dealer and they programmed a new, different coded key which is exactly what the Ford dealer would have done. IF that's what they really did. Here is my issue - if they didn't need to "clone" the existing key, then why did they have to use a blank key and a special chip? Why not just get a blank Ford key with the chip already in it like the dealer would do?

 

Guess you won't really know until you try to program another key yourself or you take it into the dealer.

[scottss80]

He told me had they been able to do a key for the $64.95 price that would have been a cloned key. I'm assuming that would have been a blank Ford transponder key. Haven't clue as to why they had to do it this way, he just said their books showed that this was the way to do it with it to be able to show it has a second key with it's own code. I also don't think this device transmitted or was connected to any outside source, that everything it retrieved was just from my cars computer.

Edited May 3, 2010 by scottss80

[danager]

I would suspect they did it they way they did so they could cycle the ignition on and off without a code being present.

 

Have you looked at the flip out keys with integrated remotes? They look slick!

[scottss80]

I would suspect they did it they way they did so they could cycle the ignition on and off without a code being present.

 

Have you looked at the flip out keys with integrated remotes? They look slick!

 

Yeah, I saw that key looks really cool, the integrated key is sort of big in a pocket. At some point I'd like to have the flip out key, I just bought an uncut, transponder key that I'll have cut so I'll have 3 keys. Bought the key on eBay, so it will be a few days or more before I really know that this 3rd key will work.At the present time just trying to keep my spending down, my daughter is graduating from high school this month so need to have some $ on hand for something for her for graduation! Keys used to be so simple, now it's kind of pricey just to get one, not complaining though!

Edited May 3, 2010 by scottss80

[rpreuss]

If that's true then they have access to the Ford computer just like the dealer and they programmed a new, different coded key which is exactly what the Ford dealer would have done. IF that's what they really did. Here is my issue - if they didn't need to "clone" the existing key, then why did they have to use a blank key and a special chip? Why not just get a blank Ford key with the chip already in it like the dealer would do?

 

Guess you won't really know until you try to program another key yourself or you take it into the dealer.

 

Disclaimer - I know diddly about the Ilco system, but am just guessing... :confused:

 

Maybe, there is another possibility. Their device cannot program the car's computer with a new code, but can read the existing codes from the computer. Maybe the key that they cloned is a duplicate of the second, missing key that the car had to know. My assumption is that all cars "know" two key codes from the factory. This way, they did not program the into the car, but he now has two different keys

[akirby]

Disclaimer - I know diddly about the Ilco system, but am just guessing... :confused:

 

Maybe, there is another possibility. Their device cannot program the car's computer with a new code, but can read the existing codes from the computer. Maybe the key that they cloned is a duplicate of the second, missing key that the car had to know. My assumption is that all cars "know" two key codes from the factory. This way, they did not program the into the car, but he now has two different keys

 

Now there is a reasonable explanation that I had not thought of. There would have been 2 keys at some point so if they cloned the second key in the computer that was different from the existing key then that would make perfect sense.