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Tolerance of Hybrid Drivers

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Maybe I am the only one who notices this but: it seems that other drivers are extremely intolerant of efficient and defensive drivers.

 

I haven't really changed my driving habits after buying a hybrid. I traded in a Mini Cooper with a manual transmission and I was in the habit of coasting to red lights and of not rabbit starting etc - not only to save gas but also my brakes. In my neighborhood and on my work commute, as well, I know the timing of many of the red lights. I notice, though, that other drivers will tailgate coming to the red lights and sometimes go around only to then slam on their brakes to make the stop. The other day, I had a Hummer on my rear and it decided to go around me at the last minute and then to cut in front of me right before the stop. The Hummer then rabbit-started and we began a pattern that lasted about 4 miles - that the Hummer would quickly accelerate only to stop at the next red light, where I would then come coasting in behind just about the time the light was turning green. For the four miles we followed the same route, I never had to come to a complete stop - my hybrid gave me a mileage reading at the end of the trip (8 miles total) of 51mpg.

 

I also never rabbit-start but I will accelerate evenly and then maintain about 5mph over the posted speed limit - unless it is residential where I will keep to the speed limit. I notice most drivers in my area are generally 10mph or more over the speed limits - thus, I get some irate folks on my tail.

 

So do you other Hybrid owners notice the same? I thought I could just be extra-sensitive to the driving habits of others since I am conscience of my own driving habits. What do you think?

 

Regards,

 

ps - I saw a Dodge Ram commercial the other day where the truck is speaking and says "I will never coast to a stop" - which I guess means the alternative: "I will keep my foot on the gas until I have to slam on the brakes."

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LOL! It's not just you hybrid drivers. I drive my 4cyl SE that way, and my Grand Cherokee before it, so I don't waste more fuel or $ than necessary. Hey, we're trying to save gas, too. In my case, I just couldn't justify the extra $10K for a hybrid. I'm still waiting for something a little better.

 

It's amazing how many people feel the need to race to the next red light, go around you to fill the HUGE space (the normal space for a safe distance between cars) in between you and the car you are following, and race you up the on ramp to be the first to reach the stop and go traffic...

 

Ever seen Repo Man? I sometimes have to agree with the short guy:"Driving makes you stupid." I see all the stupid crap out there, and it really makes me think when it comes to people's intelligence in general, the cup is half empty.

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The following drivers piss me off:

 

The lady who is the first in line at a signal and decides to dig in her purse 5 seconds before the light turns green. there is nothing you could possibly NEED that's in your purse while DRIVING.

 

The person who is driving 10mph under the posted speed limit when the weather is nice, yakking on their cell phone.

 

The person who gets in their car, shuts the door, buckles up, then pulls out their cell phone and dials it before backing up.

 

The person who doesn't use their turn signals.

 

The person who makes a turn and goes into the other lane, preventing people also waiting to turn from being able to do so.

 

The person who swings out before making a turn like they are driving a tractor-trailer combo.

 

The person whi refuses to make a turn into traffic because a car is coming, even though it's 1/2 mile away.

 

The person who turns on a green arrow, but turns so slow that only the car behind it can possibly make it through the same light.

 

The person who pulls out into the middle of the intersection to turn left and then changes their mind about turning when the light turns yellow and traffic is stopped in ALL directions, and then blocks the entire intersection until all 4 sides are honking at them to GTFO of the intersection.

 

The person who drives EVERYEWHERE at 10mph under the posted, except for when it snows when they do the posted.

 

The person who believes their car can stop as good in the snow as it does when the roads are dry.

 

The person who pulls up so close at a light that I couldn't get in my trunk if I decided to. Yes, that's me who gets out of my car since the light is red, and tells you to back the fuck off when I'm tired of dealing with the above.

 

The person who paces someone on the freeway, effectively bottling up traffic while going under the posted.

 

The person who goes across 3 lanes to get off the interstate at the next exit which is in 50 feet.

 

The same person who gets off the interstate, and then drives at 10mph under the posted limit.

 

The person who tries to merge into 75mph traffic.....doing 40mph.

 

The person who drives at 30mph on the on-ramp and tries to merge with 75mph traffic by flooring it in the last 50 feet, and has several cars behind them.

 

And finally the person coasting along in their Hybrid, who fail to realize while they are coasting, there are others behind them who would like to make it through the same fucking light.

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A few years ago a friend told me he didn't like anyone in front of him, even when walking - he drove a 4 cylinder Accord that got 25 MPG - no one wondered why :finger:

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Oh yeah! George Carlin: "Have you ever noticed that anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, and anyone who drives faster than you is an a$&hole?" :shift:

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Oh yeah! George Carlin: "Have you ever noticed that anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, and anyone who drives faster than you is an a$&hole?" :shift:

 

Only when they're driving in the snow...

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The following drivers piss me off:

 

The lady who is the first in line at a signal and decides to dig in her purse 5 seconds before the light turns green. there is nothing you could possibly NEED that's in your purse while DRIVING.

 

The person who is driving 10mph under the posted speed limit when the weather is nice, yakking on their cell phone.

 

The person who gets in their car, shuts the door, buckles up, then pulls out their cell phone and dials it before backing up.

 

The person who doesn't use their turn signals.

 

The person who makes a turn and goes into the other lane, preventing people also waiting to turn from being able to do so.

 

The person who swings out before making a turn like they are driving a tractor-trailer combo.

 

The person whi refuses to make a turn into traffic because a car is coming, even though it's 1/2 mile away.

 

The person who turns on a green arrow, but turns so slow that only the car behind it can possibly make it through the same light.

 

The person who pulls out into the middle of the intersection to turn left and then changes their mind about turning when the light turns yellow and traffic is stopped in ALL directions, and then blocks the entire intersection until all 4 sides are honking at them to GTFO of the intersection.

 

The person who drives EVERYEWHERE at 10mph under the posted, except for when it snows when they do the posted.

 

The person who believes their car can stop as good in the snow as it does when the roads are dry.

 

The person who pulls up so close at a light that I couldn't get in my trunk if I decided to. Yes, that's me who gets out of my car since the light is red, and tells you to back the fuck off when I'm tired of dealing with the above.

 

The person who paces someone on the freeway, effectively bottling up traffic while going under the posted.

 

The person who goes across 3 lanes to get off the interstate at the next exit which is in 50 feet.

 

The same person who gets off the interstate, and then drives at 10mph under the posted limit.

 

The person who tries to merge into 75mph traffic.....doing 40mph.

 

The person who drives at 30mph on the on-ramp and tries to merge with 75mph traffic by flooring it in the last 50 feet, and has several cars behind them.

 

And finally the person coasting along in their Hybrid, who fail to realize while they are coasting, there are others behind them who would like to make it through the same fucking light.

 

Second this list

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Around here the lights are timed to the speed limit. There is a 50MPH area with a number of lights. If the light turns green and you reasonably accelerate to the speed limit you will hit just about all the lights with a green. The problem is that it takes just one idiot who wants to accelerate with as little pressure on the pedal as possible to f-up the whole works. You end up at every single red light.

 

I can tell if someone notices the hybrid logo on the car. Suddenly they assume I'm going to be a jerkoff like many of the Prius drivers around here and try to get around me at any cost, often risking cutting me off or the cars around me. I would like to peel those things off.

 

The one fun thing about the stickers is when I merge onto the 70MPH highway and blow by the idiots who think that you should merge on at 40. I often get dropped jaws when they see a hybrid going from sharp corner on-ramp to 70 as fast as it does. In those situations I'm more interested in staying alive rather than saving a drop of gas. I've seen people try to merge in at 35 when there was a semi stuck in the right lane doing 70. The car lost - big time.

 

Jon

 

 

Second this list

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Around here the lights are timed to the speed limit. There is a 50MPH area with a number of lights. If the light turns green and you reasonably accelerate to the speed limit you will hit just about all the lights with a green. The problem is that it takes just one idiot who wants to accelerate with as little pressure on the pedal as possible to f-up the whole works. You end up at every single red light.

 

I can tell if someone notices the hybrid logo on the car. Suddenly they assume I'm going to be a jerkoff like many of the Prius drivers around here and try to get around me at any cost, often risking cutting me off or the cars around me. I would like to peel those things off.

 

The one fun thing about the stickers is when I merge onto the 70MPH highway and blow by the idiots who think that you should merge on at 40. I often get dropped jaws when they see a hybrid going from sharp corner on-ramp to 70 as fast as it does. In those situations I'm more interested in staying alive rather than saving a drop of gas. I've seen people try to merge in at 35 when there was a semi stuck in the right lane doing 70. The car lost - big time.

 

Jon

 

A lot of times I'll pull over to the side of the on-ramp and let the idiots get through with their 35mph merge tactic, and go after everything is clear. I too saw a car get creamed by a semi once trying to merge like that. Unfortunately, the idiot lived after causing a 6 car pile-up. He was about 4 cars in front of me, so I had no problem stopping safely, and then filling out a witness statement afterward.

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I am a fellow hybrid owners, and thankfully most hybrid drivers I encounter actually drive like normal. I do encounter an occasional hypermiler once in a while and they seriously piss me off. There is a thing called common courtesy and I really don't give a crap about fuel savings if someone feels they need to tie up traffic on a 2 lane road at 10mph under the speed limit. I do a LOT of driving on 2 lane roads with limited passing zones, and I am thankful that most of the time when I encounter a Civic Hybrid, Prius, or Insight that they actually drive normally.

 

From coming to a Fusion Hybrid from a 500+hp performance SUV, I havn't really changed my driving style. I drive just like normal, and I don't strain to keep the vehicle in EV mode for the sake of keeping it in EV mode when it will try my patience, and piss off the people behind me. What I have found the Fusion Hybrid to do really well is when you pulse and glide as EV mode really takes you far until the battery is drained. I feel good as I am not hypermiling, and I am still getting very good fuel economy. On the highway at 5mph over the limit, I average about 36-37mpg. When driving in city driving or on the 2 lane roads at 40-45mph, I am finding that I get between 39-52mpg right now. I only have 890 miles on the odometer as well.

 

Every now and then, I do get stuck behind a Prius driver who tries to hypermile and it is extremely irritating. I feel these are some of the people who give hybrid drivers a bad snobby image. People have places to be, and if your driving style causes traffic to line up behind you because you arn't going anywhere near the speed limit, or you won't hold a constant speed, then you SUCK.

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The following drivers piss me off:

 

And finally the person coasting along in their Hybrid, who fail to realize while they are coasting, there are others behind them who would like to make it through the same fucking light.

 

This has nothing to do with driving a hybrid. Most of the people I see driving like that are in old Corollas or other econoboxes, not hybrids.

And the thing about the FFH is that you can usually maintain your speed while driving in EV mode rather than just coasting for fuel economy.

 

In fact, my biggest gripe now that I drive a FFH is getting stuck behind folks who accelerate too slowly. I try to use the "pulse-and-glide" technique as much as possible, where I speed up normally using the ICE to the cruising speed, and then I let off and maintain the speed in EV mode. Getting stuck behind someone who feathers the accelerator actually worsens my FFH fuel economy because it extends the time it takes to accelerate in ICE mode. I think I surprise some folks who think I'll be slow because I'm in a hybrid, until they see me accelerate and pass them.

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This has nothing to do with driving a hybrid. Most of the people I see driving like that are in old Corollas or other econoboxes, not hybrids.

And the thing about the FFH is that you can usually maintain your speed while driving in EV mode rather than just coasting for fuel economy.

 

In fact, my biggest gripe now that I drive a FFH is getting stuck behind folks who accelerate too slowly. I try to use the "pulse-and-glide" technique as much as possible, where I speed up normally using the ICE to the cruising speed, and then I let off and maintain the speed in EV mode. Getting stuck behind someone who feathers the accelerator actually worsens my FFH fuel economy because it extends the time it takes to accelerate in ICE mode. I think I surprise some folks who think I'll be slow because I'm in a hybrid, until they see me accelerate and pass them.

 

The last comment in my rant SPECIFICALLY covers Hybrid drivers. Your pulse and glide technique fails miserably most of the time. You may THINK you are maintaining speed, but you're not, and it causes a rubber band effect behind you.

 

Anybody else get a PM from WAFHH, or is he singling me out for saying "shit"?

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I'm not sure what the PM contained... but I didn't get one :>

 

There are multiple methods for pulse and glide, and you can get extreme with any of them. I pretty much can't stand being behind any car doing any of them, unless it is being used to refer to the simple "accelerate at a decent rate and then get off the gas when you need to slow down" method - which really is just a reasonable way to drive. There are those who say that a great pulse and glide driver would not even be noticed by the person following behind but if that is the case then I have never ever seen a great pulse and glide driver (get it?)

 

I was involved a long time ago in making a traffic simulation system. On the surface it sounds so simple to model but in reality it is the most whacked-out version of controlled chaos. The rubber-band effect is even more complex than it seems. One person varying their speed in an unpredictable manor can drop the entire efficiency of a lane by 50% as the effects ripple out to intersections.

 

The point is that the roads are public. It is great to save gas as an individual but each driver needs to consider their environment. It is quite possible that a single driving behavior (for instance hypermiling) in traffic is actually consuming considerably more fuel overall because of what they forcing the other drivers to do behind them who do not have hybrids.

 

I wonder when we will see our first "hyper-rage" or "hybrid-rage" incident?

 

Jon

 

 

The last comment in my rant SPECIFICALLY covers Hybrid drivers. Your pulse and glide technique fails miserably most of the time. You may THINK you are maintaining speed, but you're not, and it causes a rubber band effect behind you.

 

Anybody else get a PM from WAFHH, or is he singling me out for saying "shit"?

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I'm not sure what the PM contained... but I didn't get one :>

 

There are multiple methods for pulse and glide, and you can get extreme with any of them. I pretty much can't stand being behind any car doing any of them, unless it is being used to refer to the simple "accelerate at a decent rate and then get off the gas when you need to slow down" method - which really is just a reasonable way to drive. There are those who say that a great pulse and glide driver would not even be noticed by the person following behind but if that is the case then I have never ever seen a great pulse and glide driver (get it?)

 

I was involved a long time ago in making a traffic simulation system. On the surface it sounds so simple to model but in reality it is the most whacked-out version of controlled chaos. The rubber-band effect is even more complex than it seems. One person varying their speed in an unpredictable manor can drop the entire efficiency of a lane by 50% as the effects ripple out to intersections.

 

The point is that the roads are public. It is great to save gas as an individual but each driver needs to consider their environment. It is quite possible that a single driving behavior (for instance hypermiling) in traffic is actually consuming considerably more fuel overall because of what they forcing the other drivers to do behind them who do not have hybrids.

 

I wonder when we will see our first "hyper-rage" or "hybrid-rage" incident?

 

Jon

 

Yep, that's also how traffic jams form on freeways for no apparent reason. When people pace one another for a few miles, and then one of them gets off effectively clearing the bottleneck, the effects can still carry on for hours afterward.

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The last comment in my rant SPECIFICALLY covers Hybrid drivers. Your pulse and glide technique fails miserably most of the time. You may THINK you are maintaining speed, but you're not, and it causes a rubber band effect behind you.

 

Anybody else get a PM from WAFHH, or is he singling me out for saying "shit"?

 

Notice I wrote "maintain" and not 'slow down'. Maybe what I'm referring to isn't true pulse and glide, as I accelerate to the flow of traffic and then maintain that speed, oftentimes using solely EV power. So I'm going with the flow of traffic, not causing backups. There's simply too much traffic where I live to not follow a consistent speed.

 

My other point is that there are dumb and annoying drivers of every stripe. In my experience, it's usually the economy car drivers who take 20 seconds to reach the speed limit, if even. That is far more annoying to me than someone who speeds up normally and then maintains that speed. Then there is the opposite end, the driver who must accelerate as fast as possible even though there's another stop sign or red light in just a couple seconds, at the next block, and they feel they must pass as many cars as possible to save that fraction of a second, and maximize their fuel consumption and vehicle wear and tear in the process.

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I'm not sure what the PM contained... but I didn't get one :>

 

There are multiple methods for pulse and glide, and you can get extreme with any of them. I pretty much can't stand being behind any car doing any of them, unless it is being used to refer to the simple "accelerate at a decent rate and then get off the gas when you need to slow down" method - which really is just a reasonable way to drive. There are those who say that a great pulse and glide driver would not even be noticed by the person following behind but if that is the case then I have never ever seen a great pulse and glide driver (get it?)

 

I was involved a long time ago in making a traffic simulation system. On the surface it sounds so simple to model but in reality it is the most whacked-out version of controlled chaos. The rubber-band effect is even more complex than it seems. One person varying their speed in an unpredictable manor can drop the entire efficiency of a lane by 50% as the effects ripple out to intersections.

 

The point is that the roads are public. It is great to save gas as an individual but each driver needs to consider their environment. It is quite possible that a single driving behavior (for instance hypermiling) in traffic is actually consuming considerably more fuel overall because of what they forcing the other drivers to do behind them who do not have hybrids.

 

I wonder when we will see our first "hyper-rage" or "hybrid-rage" incident?

 

Jon

 

 

Jon, I fear that sooner or later, we will indeed start seeing cases of hybrid-rage on the roads. It usually isn't a problem, but every now and then I get stuck behind a snobby ass hybrid driver that doesn't frickin get it. In all previous cases, it has been a Toyota Pious driver. I got stuck yet again behind another one today on my way home on US27. Everytime we hit a upslope incline, his speed would gradually drop until we were doing 15mph under the limit by the time we get to the top. A guy in an F350 with a lift kit was clearly getting irritated as he was starting to tailgate the Pious driver, and so on.

 

As an above poster stated, the ripple effect created can be devastating as I noticed from my fuel economy graph that my fuel economy was indeed starting to take a hit behind this asshole Prius driver. As the above poster stated, it was largely due to the ripple created, that caused me to face unpredictable variations in speed, which make P&G useless as you can't anticipate anything.

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It bugs me tremendously when I have a truck or car on my tail when going 52 in a 50 mile zone. I even had a mass highway truck almost on my bumper while I was going 40 in a 40 zone. I personally try to keep it within 2-3 mph of the actual speed limit because it gets me the best mileage and I feel most in control of the car. I could understand people's frustration when you get drivers going 10 miles slower than the speed limit, but there seems to be little tolerance for those of us going the speed limit. Personally, if people want to speed and waste their money, it is fine with me, just don't crowd my tail when I am going the speed limit.

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It bugs me tremendously when I have a truck or car on my tail when going 52 in a 50 mile zone. I even had a mass highway truck almost on my bumper while I was going 40 in a 40 zone. I personally try to keep it within 2-3 mph of the actual speed limit because it gets me the best mileage and I feel most in control of the car. I could understand people's frustration when you get drivers going 10 miles slower than the speed limit, but there seems to be little tolerance for those of us going the speed limit. Personally, if people want to speed and waste their money, it is fine with me, just don't crowd my tail when I am going the speed limit.

True as long as you are in the right lane on a 4 lane road. I hate these people who drive the speed limit in passing lane and hang right beside the other person who is in right lane also doing the speed limit. Pass them and move over.

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I try to keep the big-picture attitude of driving a vehicle from A to B. My hypermiling activities are restricted to roads or lanes that don't have victims reasonably behind. Incorporating the rear-view mirror into the scan and using common courtesy is really helpful!

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Not true in most modern cars ( < 10 years old ). I haven't seen a electronically controlled tranny that won't go to overdrive at 40 in quite some time. Aero drag goes exponentially higher as speed increases, so it always takes more power to go faster. CVT transmissions like in hybrids can run the engine at any RPM at any wheel speed so they always match the most effective RPM.

 

Jon

 

 

You'll get better mileage at 50 mph than at 40 mph because the tranny isn't in top gear at lower speeds. Posted speed limits are usually 5 mph too low and sometimes 10 mph too low for actual driving conditions.

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I could be wrong about the threshold, but the point is that you'll get the best mileage at the lowest speed in the highest gear which is usually around 40-50 mph. Above that point you get higher RPM and more wind resistance.

 

There are no gear shifts in the FFH. Once you are below 45 mph the vehicle starts cycling between ICE mode and EV mode. The mpg continues to increase down into the 20 mph range. I drove around town the other night with AC off but headlights on at about 25 mph for 12 miles and got 68.4 mpg with the ICE cycling on and off about every mile. My long term mpg. is 38.4. At low speeds it is inefficient to run the ICE since you need only a couple of horsepower. The hybrid overcomes a lot of that by charging a battery when the ICE runs at low speeds to improve the efficiency of the ICE. The lowered wind and rolling resistances more than counterbalance the battery charge/discharge loses running the EV system. This system is almost sorcery!

 

Lee

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