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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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Won't run in EV mode, ICE kicks in immediately.

EV Mode ICE MPG

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81 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:19 PM

Since I've got my '10 Fusion Hybrid back from the dealer (after the Takata airbag recall repair), I've noticed that it's impossible to run in EV mode unless I'm coasting to a stop or going downhill.  Previously I could gradually accelerate to about 45 MPH using a very light foot and stay in EV mode the entire time, even cruising for a mile or so at that speed.

My fuel economy is only down about 10%, 37 MPG vs. 40 MPG but it's frustrating to have the ICE kick in when it's unnecessary.

Anyone else experience something similar?
 


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#2 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 06:04 PM

Sorry for the double post, can't seem to find a way to delete one.



#3 OFFLINE   KDenn

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 02:51 PM

I have exactly the same problem.  2010 Fusion Hybrid.  It doesn't start in EV and even at slow speeds, on level ground, it will not kick in.  At stop signs it does not stop the engine anymore.  My distance went from 1020 Kms a tank to 820 km a tank.  Have it booked for the second time now, will wait until tomorrow to report back.  


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#4 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 03:00 PM

I'm right at 100,000 miles on the odometer.  It's at the dealer right now to fix the rattle under the dash that was not there prior to the airbag replacement.
I'm wondering if something happened because I did not drive the car for nearly 6 months.  Only started it a few times.
 



#5 OFFLINE   hsk8te2006

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 03:06 PM

I am also having the exact same problem! I took it to my dealer for them to look at it, and they are saying the battery will not charge correctly and they are suggesting I must not have followed the owner's manuals storage instructions (in my own words):

  • Run the engine for a minimum of 10 minutes every month it's in storage
  • Disconnect the negative battery terminal any time it will be stored for 30 days or longer

They are also saying that if the battery needs replacing it will no longer be covered by warranty since the warranty states it does not cover high voltage battery damage due to improper vehicle storage.

 

Did the two of you follow these storage instructions from the owner's manual while storing your FFH?

Can anyone else chime in here on if these symptoms would actually happen due to storing without following these steps?

 

Further, does anyone know if the vehicle keeps a log of times it is turned on and off so we can verify we followed these instructions?


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#6 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 03:24 PM

I did not follow any specific storage instructions, however the car was started periodically and moved around from the street, driveway, garage...  Never drove it more than a 100ft but I did let it idle for at least 10 minutes and cycled through both the A/C and heat.

Here's the part from the owner's manual.

Low and high voltage battery – storage
Your vehicle must be started and run for a minimum of 10 minutes once a month in order to maintain the high voltage battery charge. This will maintain the high voltage battery but it is not enough to maintain the low voltage (underhood) battery and additional low voltage (underhood) battery charging may be required after 60 days.

If your vehicle is to be stored for 30 days or longer, the low voltage (underhood) battery negative terminal must be disconnected. Failure to do this could damage your vehicle’s batteries.

 



#7 OFFLINE   hsk8te2006

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 01:36 PM

The dealer explained they were able to fix this and shared it was caused by the vehicle sitting and not being driven or at least having the engine run regularly. Specifically the cells in the battery had become unbalanced and charged at different levels which prevented the battery system from properly identifying how to charge the battery but it also did not have enough power in the cells to run the electric motor to drive the car. They serviced it by rebalancing the battery cells. I had to leave the car them overnight and the cost was $407 at my local dealer, but it now works and drives as it should. I hope this information is helpful!
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#8 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 01:44 PM

Thanks for the update, great information to have.  Sorry about the $407 but I suppose it's better than the alternative.
My dealer service department didn't get to my car yesterday, waiting for a phone call now.



#9 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:25 PM

This is the first instance that we ave heard of a dealer having to re-balance and recharge the HVB. That's why many of us that have been here ( 2009 ) a long time urge new owners to read the manual cover to cover twice to learn about their car. Many cars now need to be run at least monthly because of computer drain when off.

I hope your HVB is OK. The fact that it was discharged that deeply shows that it wasn't run. You can charge the HVB to full any time by holding the accelerator pedal 1/2 way down for several minutes to make the ICE run and fully charge the HVB. If you then disconnect the 12 v the HVB will be OK for many months. 


Edited by lolder, 12 December 2018 - 09:29 PM.

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#10 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 10:13 PM

Just picked up the Fusion.  They reported, 
"Normal characteristic from vehicle. No problem found."

Car is driving the same, any load at all and the ICE kicks in. Not thrilled about this but probably have no recourse.  This dealerships service department is the worst I've ever experienced.  Unfortunately it's super convenient and the only game in town.

Also had them look into TSB 11-7-31 which was mentioned by another member in a different post.  They said they applied a software update to the PCM.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see if the wrench lite comes on again, although it only happened a few times on really hot days and we're not seeing many of those right now.  They charged me $149 for this.  Kind of a rip-off if you ask me.

I'll continue to monitor the fuel economy and report back any findings.

Curious to see how the battery "rebalancing" works out for @hsk8te2006, please keep us posted.



#11 OFFLINE   timothyf

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 02:16 PM

The same thing is happening to my FFH 2010 after the replacement of the airbag. I've cleared the battery and reprogrammed the throttle valve. But to no avail. The EV just won't kick on at 30 mph etc... Anyone else come up with a solution?



#12 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 02:35 PM

Replacement of the airbag very likely required disconnecting the 12 volt battery.  That means the engine has to relearn its operating parameters from scratch.  It takes about 25 miles of varied driving before it is complete.  Once that is complete the car should be back to normal.



#13 OFFLINE   hsk8te2006

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:00 PM

Update: The dealer contacted ford Engineering to make sure they were servicing the battery correctly, and they had me come back in because apparently the mechanics didn't realize they needed to configure the battery re-balancing system specifically for my 2010 model. Anyway, they re-balanced it again, and it is now 90% back to normal.

 

Bottom line takeaway message: To fix this issue of no EV power from not "storing it correctly" (which per the owner's manual would have included running the vehicle for 10 minuets every 30 days and disconnecting the negative 12V battery cable in-between monthly idles), take your vehicle to your Ford dealer and have them re-balance your HV battery, asking them to make sure they configure the system for your specific model and model year. This will cost approx. $400 - $450, depending on the dealer, but it works.


Edited by hsk8te2006, 06 January 2019 - 12:01 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   Rob

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:45 AM

I have a very similar problem with my 2010 FFH. 

 

The battery shows full or nearly full all the time.  The car will not go into EV mode unless stopped or near stopped while braking.  As soon as the brake is released the engine starts up. The EV box no longer expands. 

 

I just got it back from the dealer after they updated the software.  No change and the dealer suspects a weak HV battery.  I have just over 100K on the Fusion.

 

BTW, has never been in storage and is used multiple times a day.

 

Any ideas?

 

Rob


Edited by Rob, 11 January 2019 - 01:29 PM.

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#15 OFFLINE   PaulGo

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:51 PM

I have two 2010 Mercury Milan Hybrids that were in storage for seven months because of the air bag recall. Ford gave me two rental vehicles while it was in storage.  I made sure to start the cars every four weeks and run them for 20 to thirty minutes. I also disconnected the 12v battery as directed in the owner's manual.  The HV batteries now like to stay in the fully charged state instead of staying in the middle on the gauge and the cars stay mostly in the ICE mode except, when braking and maybe a little in the hybrid mode after traveling over 15 miles (even after fully warmed up).  Ford had me sign a statement that I would not use my cars while I had the rental vehicles.   Both cars have only 43,000 miles on them.  I called Ford and they refused to pay for the hybrid repair.  I am waiting for a call back from a Ford supervisor. I feel since I followed the directions in the manual and kept the cars in storage as directed by Ford they should be responsible.  I contacted an attorney who is willing to set up a class action to get me reimbursement for getting my two cars repaired.  Send me a message if you would like to participle and I will give you his contact information.       


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#16 OFFLINE   hsk8te2006

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:18 PM

Here is some additional info: The folks at my Ford dealership did indicate that the battery was not performing at full capacity even after they had rebalanced it, and they had attribute that to the age of the battery. However, they also told me since the computer was not throwing a code saying the battery had failed, that Ford currently would not authorize an in warranty replacement of the battery. I would be willing to suggest very strongly that whether or not the computer is detecting a fault in the system, or detecting the end of the battery life, that if the battery is only performing at half of its original performanc (and I do have their tests to show it was only at about 58%), that it should be replaceable under warranty.
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#17 OFFLINE   markwilson66

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:35 AM

Just a quick update on EV/ICE mode after commuting for several weeks now. Still same behavior, seldom in EV mode unless coasting for short periods or going down hill. That said, my MPG doesn't seem to be suffering much. I'm getting exactly 40mpg with a 36 mile commute each way, about 85% highway, 15% stop and go.
So while the car drives differently the fuel economy is about the same as before.

#18 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:45 AM

I suspect several cells are shorting out in these older batteries. That lowers the output voltage of the HVB by about 1.4 v. for every shorted cell. That may not seem like much in the 207 cell HVB but it affects how "fast" the car can go in EV mode much more than how "far" it can go. All the cells are in series so the max voltage of the HVB is directly affected. The lowered voltage has a "squared" effect on the max EV speed. The car when new and parked "on" with the AC on in hot 90º F. weather runs the ICE about 3 minutes out of every 15-20 minutes to keep the HVB charged. I suspect this is only proportionately affected, not squared. Likewise the ability to start the ICE is relatively unimpaired. A further problem is that once cells start to short, the car no longer appears to do periodic battery re-conditioning. Mine did it about every 8K miles until the problem started and then didn't seem to do it anymore. The car will still operate indefinitely with shorted cells but with diminished hybrid efficiency. The only thing it can't tolerate is an open cell which puts the HVB at zero volts and then the ICE won't start and the car won't move. That seems to be very rare. The car seems very long lived. The only other Achilles heel is the electric vacuum pump which Ford has had chronic problems with in the F 150 also. I would consider HVB replacement by somebody like Green Tec Auto ( https://greentecauto...fusion-new-cell ) for $3 K + installation if I wanted to keep the car to 200-300 K miles. The ICE, transmission and body may be good for that.


Edited by lolder, 12 January 2019 - 05:47 AM.

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#19 OFFLINE   rowekmr

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:11 PM

What is the typical life of the HV battery if car is never stored? I'm looking to get another 2010-2012 and wondered should I worry about older batteries?

 

I have previously have owned a few Fusion/Milan hybrids but never had a problem with the HV battery. I did have a 05 Honda Accord hybrid that suffered HV issues from storage (sitting at auction lot) that had diminished capacity like you describe.



#20 OFFLINE   Automate

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 10:38 PM

I'm having the same problem with my 2010.

 

Is anyone having this problem with a 2011 or 2012?







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