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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Tires, any favorites? Michelin Defender, Premier A/S, Energy Saver


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Sky14FFH

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:57 PM

I'm a little late to be asking this since I already bought some tires on a deal on BF but thought I'd bring up the question anyway.  I decided not to go with the Michelin Energy Savers this time around because they were terrible in the snow and they are reputed to have weak sidewalls.  (I actually had a small bulge in one after hitting a curb last spring and was glad to get rid of them.  But I wanted to get Michelins again just because I am so impressed with the Destinys I got for my other car.  Seems like they are going to outlast the car.  So with the Fusion it was a toss up between the 80,000 Defenders (that must be the current evolution of the Destinys) and the Premier A/S.  I decided to go with the Premier A/S and hope I made the right decision.  According to reviews they are pretty good in the snow, excellent in the rain and stop faster than most tires in the dry, and according to Michelin's brochure better on fuel economy than the Defenders but only a notch worse than the Energy Savers.  When comparing them with the Defenders I only noticed that the Defenders had much deeper tread so I expect to replace these after the car gets over 100,000 miles.  So far I have experienced noticeably better steering response but haven't had much chance to test them in any other way.









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#2 OFFLINE   Larry Twitchell

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 10:18 PM

I just replaced my EnergySavers with Defender T+H primarily because Consumer Reports recommendations. The Energy Savers were original equipment and lasted 45.7K miles, better than any tire I’ve had in many years, but less than the suggested 55K. Rotation every 5K was done religiously, which I intend to do with the Defenders. I, too, see much deeper tread depth than the Energy Savers and am hopeful that they’ll last longer. Haven’t driven on them enough to comment yet.
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#3 OFFLINE   2014FordFusionSE

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:39 PM

I'm going to get the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ and will let you know what I think once I drive them around a bit.

I only wish the name was shorter :)

If I don't like them, I'll switch to the Defenders. Defenders have a longer tread life but I don't drive that much.

 

The Energy Savers lasted about 40k miles. They would probably go 5k more but I don't want to wait until they are bald.


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#4 OFFLINE   Sky14FFH

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:30 PM

I got 54800 out of the energy savers and they were rated for 55,000 so I guess I trust Michelin's treadware claims. So far I've had the Premier A/Ss and they GRIP and I am very happy with them so far.  They don't make any of the squeeling sounds when turning in parking lots and do not break loose when hitting on ramps fast like the Energy Savers did.  Because of global warming I haven't be able to test them in the snow yet.  It has been ridiculously warm. They have a 60,000 treadware.  Michelin rated them second to the Energy Savers in low rolling resistance according to their brochure, or I would have gotten the defenders but I noticed the inside tread instead of running straight zigzaged/or alternated and looked like they'd have more drag.  Defenders would be a VERY sensible choice if you never want to buy tires again however.  Every so often I wonder if I should have got them instead but I'm into safety these days with how bad people drive.  I also was shooting for more comfort and if the defenders have a good comfort level the Premier A/S were just a bit better.  I may notice slightly more road noise with them than the energy savers however, but it isn't much. The pilots didn't seem to get good ratings on tirerack so I didn't consider them for long.  Correct me if I am wrong,was researching it 2 months ago.


Edited by Sky14FFH, 08 January 2019 - 11:32 PM.


#5 OFFLINE   ethermion

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:58 AM

We found the factory Michelins to be more like wagon wheels.  They did last a long time, but that is because they had poor traction.

 

Now sporting Goodyear Eagle F1 all season.  I use the same shoes on my race day car.  Got maybe 30k miles on the fronts before replacement, rears look new.  Massive improvement in inclement weather (rain or snow) - just massive.  Butt dyno says launch, braking, turning, also noticeably improved.

 

Be mindful that low rolling resistance tires, have low rolling resistance.  It is the resistance that connects you to the road.  Think about that.



#6 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 11:18 AM

We found the factory Michelins to be more like wagon wheels.  They did last a long time, but that is because they had poor traction.

 

Now sporting Goodyear Eagle F1 all season.  I use the same shoes on my race day car.  Got maybe 30k miles on the fronts before replacement, rears look new.  Massive improvement in inclement weather (rain or snow) - just massive.  Butt dyno says launch, braking, turning, also noticeably improved.

 

Be mindful that low rolling resistance tires, have low rolling resistance.  It is the resistance that connects you to the road.  Think about that.

I think you will find the LRR Michelins from Ford are dry/wet rated, not snow/ice.  I've found - on Neons, Fiestas and FFHs - that using snow tires in Winter and the OEM tread (or similar LRR) non-Winter works well.  So, directional Goodyear tread is on now with OEM rims.  Come March/April Tirerack rims and OEM tread go on.


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Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

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#7 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 01:59 PM

We found the factory Michelins to be more like wagon wheels.  They did last a long time, but that is because they had poor traction.

 

Now sporting Goodyear Eagle F1 all season.  I use the same shoes on my race day car.  Got maybe 30k miles on the fronts before replacement, rears look new.  Massive improvement in inclement weather (rain or snow) - just massive.  Butt dyno says launch, braking, turning, also noticeably improved.

 

Be mindful that low rolling resistance tires, have low rolling resistance.  It is the resistance that connects you to the road.  Think about that.

What tire pressure where you using? I find the Michelin's work well at 50 psi and I use them in all weather conditions. :)

 

Paul


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#8 OFFLINE   Sky14FFH

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:39 PM

Be mindful that low rolling resistance tires, have low rolling resistance.  It is the resistance that connects you to the road.  Think about that.

  Yeahhhh but no I've been thinking about these things for decades and low rolling resistance does not equal low grip.  The two have little to do with each other, maybe negligible.  For example, slicks will be very grippy in dry weather for example but at high PSI have very low rolling resistance.  You can have high LRR and high grip tires and slippery tires with low rolling resistance which is often the case when tires get old - especially with the Energy Savers - when they got old they got worse in every way.

Paul, I keep my PSI at 36 in the winter and 38 in the summer and got several 600+mile tanks this past couple years with a couple tense 700+mile tanks.

 

I don't recommend directional tires (and I learned this the hard way) they can throw your alignment off or the way your car tracks down the road.  Dealership I was getting alignments at insisted this for years when I had directional Perellis on a car until I got new tires and turned out the wheels were aligned all along.


Edited by Sky14FFH, 09 January 2019 - 04:40 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:50 AM

 

 

I don't recommend directional tires (and I learned this the hard way) they can throw your alignment off or the way your car tracks down the road.  Dealership I was getting alignments at insisted this for years when I had directional Perellis on a car until I got new tires and turned out the wheels were aligned all along.

 

I don't think that has anything to do with directional tires.  More likely just poor Pirelli quality control or the fact the in general, directional tires are meant to be more sporty, which generally means stiffer sidewalls, which generally means more sensitivity to road ruts.


Edited by Waldo, 10 January 2019 - 07:51 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   Sky14FFH

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:36 AM

Well ask a dealership.  They insisted on it and it didn't have to do with their being Pirellis.  They just said sometimes directional tires make it appear as if your alignment is not true and it will cause the car to not track straight.  For example, on a straight flat freeway take your grip off the wheel while keeping your hands around it.  If the car doesn't keep the lane at least for a 1/4 mile then something is wrong. I didn't believe them either.  They got the alignment as close as it had been since new but it still wasn't perfectly true and would vere left, constantly. Originally I believed they were putting too much toe in as they said they do on front wheel drive cars.   It wasn't until I got Michellin Destinys did that stop happening.  In college I had a Ford Probe that was so well aligned/designed it would keep the lane for miles almost like it was on autopilot.  Since then I've been spoiled and expect my alignment to be perfect.


Edited by Sky14FFH, 10 January 2019 - 11:39 AM.


#11 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:44 PM

All tires have "residual self aligning torque" which determines how much the tire itself can cause a vehicle to pull in one direction or another.  It actually doesn't matter which side of the car or which direction the tire is rotating, it will always cause a pull in the same direction.  There is also tire "conicity" which can cause a vehicle to pull if the tires on one side are worse than on the other.  If you flip them from one side to the other the vehicle will pull in the opposite direction.

 

Self aligning torque is general a designed-in part of the tire while conicity is generally a quality control issue.  But neither has anything to do with a being a directional tire, but either one would explain the condition you had.



#12 OFFLINE   Sky14FFH

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:29 PM

So apparently according to your explanation, and Ford's, directional tires tend to have "residual self aligning torque" that causes "a pull in the same direction" because the car always pulled in the same direction...until I stopped using directional tires. 

 

Here's a long discussion on it. http://www.automotiv..._tire_pull.html

 

"Polygon
02-02-2008, 05:24 PM

Lots of things can cause tire pull.

1. Uneven tire wear.
2. Out of alignment.
3. Directional tires put on the wrong way."

"goongrinch

02-03-2008, 03:29 PM

just for more input when i put a set of four brand new directional tires on, set the alignment, and the car pulls, lets say in this case to the left, i will rotate front to back the right side, that is the general rule i was taught and a majority of the time this will fix the problem with the directional tires"

 

The take away:  Directional tires add an extra factor of entropy that could lead to your car pulling one way or another.  So if you would rather reduce the probability of problems occurring do not add extra factors of entropy.


Edited by Sky14FFH, 10 January 2019 - 10:44 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:32 AM

No, my explanation has nothing at all to do with directional tires.  Any tire can cause a pull to one side.  Sometimes swapping the tires to the other side (which you can't do with directional tires) can make it pull the other way, sometimes not.

The fact that your issue was resolved after changing your tires just means you had a bad set of tires, has nothing at all to do with them being directional.



#14 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:40 PM

I got 87k miles out of the 17" OEM Michelin Energy Savers on my previous 2013. I drive gently and never wanted for more handling or traction. My wife drives a little harder and got 75k+ from the same tires on her 2014. I rotate with oil changes at 10k miles.

I replaced mine with the Continental tires that a lot of people on here were raving about a few years back. Hated them, as efficiency dropped significantly with my car. Swapped them to my wife's car and efficiency was impacted less, since she doesn't drive nearly as efficiently as I do. Went back to OEM on mine and efficiency went right back up. I'm sticking with the OEM Michelin Energy Savers.

Current 2018 has 18" version of the Michelins. Will probably stick with them if they can last 70k+, like my previous experience with the other cars.

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#15 OFFLINE   mwr

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:56 AM

I got 87k miles out of the 17" OEM Michelin Energy Savers on my previous 2013. I drive gently and never wanted for more handling or traction. My wife drives a little harder and got 75k+ from the same tires on her 2014. I rotate with oil changes at 10k miles.

What tire pressure do you use?


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#16 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 07:52 AM

What tire pressure do you use?

A bit higher than recommended, but not controversially high... 38-40.
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#17 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:45 AM

I run 40 cold year round - regardless of the tire.  I check and reinflate about once every 4-6 weeks.  With TPMS monitor in my car now, I have an approximation instead of having to yank out the compressor.


Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare,

blacked out grille

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice





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