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Guest Message by DevFuse

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"killing off several sedans, including the Fusion"


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39 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:17 PM

They are gearing for windfall profits per sale than accepting any and all profit they can make.  Selll 20 Fusions and potentially make as much profit as a couple trucks or 1 Mustang.  I tell ya, they want the windfall cash, not a trickle.

 

 

 Oh wow!  I just caught the article linked below.  Ford announced the car cuts in the same press conference where they announced a first-quarter 1.7B profit! https://www.freep.co...neup/549463002/

 

And what the heck is wrong with that? Companies are in business to maximize profit and that is what they are suppose to do for their share holders. A company that successfully changes and adapts to changing customer demand will be successful. A company that does not compete to build what customers are demanding will not be competitive and likely will not survive. Capitalism at it's best! 

 

There is a very simple reason why some vehicles have a profit margin equivalent to 20 Fusions (or whatever). Its because customers are willing to pay that price. Its customer demand.

 

I'm not getting why we are not cheering this? Ford is making changes that will ensure it has a profitable future. I get that many (most?) of us on this forum prefer sedans but there were a lot of people that preferred horse drawn carriages instead of horseless carriages. Which companies survived and prospered?









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#22 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:03 PM

I'm not getting why we are not cheering this?

I'm not cheering or particularly upset about it. Really, I'm just a bit baffled. It's odd to think that when we're next in the market for vehicles, Ford may not be offering anything we'd be interested in buying. Or, maybe our interests will change...?

Btw, I read that Ford had confirmed final production for Focus, Fiesta, and Taurus, but left the door open for Fusion... so, you never know.

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#23 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:25 PM

I do understand the need for Ford and others to make a profit.  However when Ford essentially torpedos products that comprise about 30% of their sales it's a very baffling move.  I've been reading articles on Autoblog and elsewhere and for the main part they are also confused by the radical move although understanding of why. 

 

In these articles, I read comments that folks left and a large number would like Fusion retained but with trimmed models/options ... sort of like what has been discussed a bit here.  Even pickup owners have remarked that **some** semblance of sedans should remain.

 

I''m not liking this one darn bit.  I chose Ford years back because they had good looking cars that met my needs and didn't take the Feds up on bailout cash in '08.  Articles also hint that GM is pretty much heading the same way as well.  Essentially I see that the US auto makers are gonna hand off the car market to companies whose world HQ is outside the US.


Edited by Cobra348, 27 April 2018 - 09:26 PM.

Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

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Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, auto wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice

 


#24 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:39 PM

However when Ford essentially torpedos products that comprise about 30% of their sales it's a very baffling move.  I've been reading articles on Autoblog and elsewhere and for the main part they are also confused by the radical move although understanding of why.

 

I''m not liking this one darn bit.  I chose Ford years back because they had good looking cars that met my needs and didn't take the Feds up on bailout cash in '08.  Articles also hint that GM is pretty much heading the same way as well.  Essentially I see that the US auto makers are gonna hand off the car market to companies whose world HQ is outside the US.

I like Ford, I like the Fusion, I love that Ford did not take a government bailout but there is nothing at all baffling about this. Ford (like any company) has a finite set of resources to invest in research/design for new vehicles. Ford has made a decision to invest those finite resources in vehicles that are in demand and have a higher profit margin. That means a bigger return for each dollar invested in product development. This makes total sense. Its right for the company and its right for the share holder.

 

The unhappy thing for us here is that we prefer sedans and presumably the majority of us on this forum love the Fusion. We don't want it to go away. But, we are far outnumbered by the number of people that love SUVs and trucks (and to a lesser degree mini-vans). I've never owned an SUV but I'm going to have to take a look when it is time to say goodbye to my FFH. There must be legitimate reasons why SUVs are so popular and I'm willing to give them a look, especially if Waldo is correct about the MPGs of SUVs becoming competitive with the FFH. Maybe it is not such a big leap for me. I use to own station wagons and an SUV is similar in a lot of ways to a station wagon.

 

Waldo, what can you share about future Ford SUVs that might interest us Fusion bigots?



#25 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 06:32 PM

I started looking.  Chevy Malibu hybrid for starters.  EPA estimates are better than Fusion, HP rating a bit lower.  Biggest complaint seems to be the entry being cramped and rear window being restricted.  There's a Chevy dealer about 15 miles from me and I may look at Malibu - in general - to get a feel.  FCA (Chrysler) is out as I do not want a 300.  But I also have a bad taste from some of the non-US brands ... cars falling apart (new ones at that!), lack of support from dealers, etc.  I still have some warranty time but it won't hurt to get ideas.

 

And I'm sticking with hybrids ... I can thumb my nose at everyone else who can't get more than 30 MPG.


Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, auto wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice

 


#26 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 08:56 PM

I don't understand why everyone is playing the "gas prices will go up and change everything" again.  It's true gas prices went up in the past, then they came back down.  There's no fundamental reason they will go up and stay up for any extended period of time.  Betting your company's future on a potential gas spike is really not a long term strategy.  And besides, Ford is still engineering, developing and building small cars and sedans for the rest of the world, so they could always bring them back if trends change.

 

Don't get caught up in sales numbers, Ford (and any well run business) doesn't care about sales, they care about margins.  The margin in the cars is so small that you could sell 500,000 Fusions and still not make as much money as the 10,000 Navigators they plan to sell.  So why tie up all that production capacity and overhead for poor returns?

As long as they can sell the 10K gas pigs, that works.  With the next "black swan"  that spikes gas prices to $7 and precipitates a recession - not so much



#27 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 09:02 PM

As long as they can sell the 10K gas pigs, that works.  With the next "black swan"  that spikes gas prices to $7 and precipitates a recession - not so much

Higher gas prices in the future will occur. When there is a demand increase for smaller cars auto companies will change quickly to meet that demand. They have always done this in the past and will do it again.



#28 OFFLINE   Fission

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 09:27 PM

I think there is a good possibility gas prices will not stay high for very long, once they inevitably spike for some future reason. The US is in the amazing position of having vast reserves of oil just waiting to be pumped when prices rise, thanks to fracking. Moderate prices could last for decades. If that is the future, Ford is making a good business decision.

I personally am bummed about their decision, but I think the strategy makes sense.

#29 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 10:07 PM

Think Camry and Accord will go away? Will Mercedes and BMW stop selling sedans? I doubt it.

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#30 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:12 PM

Fuel economy keeps going up so demand isn't going up as fast as it could.

 

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#31 OFFLINE   sschnath

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 06:03 PM

According to this Wall Street Journal article on MSN by Dan Neil, "Vehicles classified as light trucks are already subject to lower standards than cars. And for CAFE purposes a crossover with all-wheel-drive qualifies as a light truck."

 

By replacing higher MPG cars with AWD crossovers it appears Ford is actually better able to meet their CAFE requirements. Go figure.

 

Reminds me of the tax incentives businesses received for buying SUVs over a certain GVW while at the same time, other parts of the government were trying to implement stricter MPG standards.

 

I don't know if this tax break still exists but it is typical politician idiocy. Contradicting policies resulting in a zero sum outcome for society, though not zero sum for the manufacturers because it certainly helped to artificially fuel (no pun intended) the SUV craze which brings us to Ford's decision today.


Edited by sschnath, 04 May 2018 - 06:04 PM.


#32 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 01:05 PM

I don't know if this tax break still exists but it is typical politician idiocy. Contradicting policies resulting in a zero sum outcome for society, though not zero sum for the manufacturers because it certainly helped to artificially fuel (no pun intended) the SUV craze which brings us to Ford's decision today.

Government policies regarding MPG mandates have very little affect on the SUV/CUV craze (in my opinion). They are more flexible, can haul more (e.g. try hauling a chest of drawers in a sedan), can tow more, have much better visibility, have better off road capabilities, are better in snow, and have far easier entry/exit. These are a few of the reasons they are popular. Consumers love them because they have many advantages over a sedan.

 

If Waldo is right about future SUV/CUVs having comparable MPG as sedans, then the advantages of sedans will be further reduced.



#33 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 06:15 PM

If Waldo is right about future SUV/CUVs having comparable MPG as sedans, then the advantages of sedans will be further reduced.

However the current government has mentioned a few times about relaxing the mandated standards.  If that happens then comparable MPG is not gonna happen.  I can't see manufacturers taking the high road and doing it anyway.


Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, auto wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice

 


#34 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 06:43 PM

There is backlash against the EPA.

 

https://insideclimat...-climate-change



#35 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 12:53 PM

You can get the same utility in an Escape as a Fusion for the same price and when the next gen comes out in a hybrid, it will get roughly the same fuel economy.

 

Waldo, you teased us here...  What kinds of things are we likely to see in the next generation? Will Ford change the next generation plans if the EPA mandates are relaxed?


Edited by Texasota, 07 May 2018 - 12:55 PM.


#36 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 01:37 PM

I don't see how they can change plans when they are working 3 -5 years ahead and California isn't lowering their standards.  It's sad that they won't eliminate CO2 requirements to solve World Hunger. ;(

 

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#37 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:17 AM

Higher gas prices in the future will occur. When there is a demand increase for smaller cars auto companies will change quickly to meet that demand. They have always done this in the past and will do it again.

 

The last one drove GM and Chrysler through bankruptcy.  Ford avoided it by the slimmest of margins, leaving themselves heavily leveraged and vulnerable to future downturns.



#38 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:05 PM

 

The last one drove GM and Chrysler through bankruptcy.  Ford avoided it by the slimmest of margins, leaving themselves heavily leveraged and vulnerable to future downturns.

Those bankruptcies were largely caused by the so called "great recession". Higher gas prices played a role but it was relatively small compared to the global financial meltdown that occurred during the 2008 - 2010 time frame.


Edited by Texasota, 13 May 2018 - 01:07 PM.


#39 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:30 AM

Yep, sales dropping from 17mil/year to 10mil/year was a much bigger deal than higher gas prices.



#40 OFFLINE   MXGOLF

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:43 PM

It's all about the bottom line and money. The world revolves around money. Kind of sad for us but that will make all our Fusions more valuable right! They will be collector items. I don't want or need a SUV!






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