"killing off several sedans, including the Fusion"

[mwr]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-25/ford-ceo-plans-11-5-billion-more-cuts-pulls-ahead-margin-goal

 

[Cobra348]

Yup. And here's another link about the same thing. What kind of stuff is Ford Management smoking? Will they share?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/abandon-car-ford-dropping-passenger-234500158.html

 

If they kept Fusion and Mustang and F-150 that would work. But Mustang is too high-priced for me and a pickup is not my cup of tea. This is a great way to push me to GM or elsewhere <shudder>

 

NOTE TO FORD:

You just added 2 trim lines to Fusion - Sport and Platinum. JD Power and several others have remarked about the huge number of Fusion variants. Well, here's a way you could possibly keep Fusion as a low-cost item for folks:

• Gas Fusion - reduce the trim lines to Titanium and Platinum. Make Sport as an option package like the California package is to the Mustang.
• Hybrid Fusion - reduce trim lines to Titanium and Platinum. Maybe keep SE as an entry level.
• Energi Fusion - TBH, its selling point is in-town economy. It has no pass-thru (which BTW I use a lot in my hybrid!), so to me it's not worth the added cost over hybrid.

End result: Fusion in a less complicated option form, Mustang and trucks. Keep in mind that gas prices are going to go up ... they're about $3 (87 octane) in my area now and still rising. When the gas reaches a certain level, people will be looking for something economical. Do you want GM and Kia and the like to get that business or do you want it?

 

ADDED IN: Read the comments at the end of the article. Lots of Ford owners going elsewhere if Ford does this. Henry Ford wanted to make cars that everyone could afford. Well, now his company will focus on anything BUT everyday cars. Good move!

Edited April 26, 2018 by Cobra348

[lolder]

They may think the electric car trend is something they don't want to invest in right now and the pickups and SUVs will be the last ones electrified. They claim the margin is small on the cars so maybe they will hoard cash for the eventual huge investment the change to electrics will cost. There have been several financial analyses of why the huge fossil fuel car companies will have a gigantic problem switching their business model from fuel to electrics. The profit centers are completely different but they still must service the debt on the present business model. Tesla has a huge advantage because nobody expects them to make a profit soon and in the unlikely event they can't get more financing in the US, China and India are ready with billions. Musk would rather his US company makes them but his view is much broader and if the US wont he'll go elsewhere. People are dying from pollution everyday in China and India.

Edited April 26, 2018 by lolder

[Cobra348]

If that's so, why are they touting a hybrid Mustang, an AWD Mustang, a hybrid F-150, a diesel F-150? If they were gonna get out of electric, I would think the hybrids would not be on this list. And the hybrid Mustang has been written about as well as confirmed at Carlisle.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-ford-mustang-hybrid-what-to-expect/

 

Note - headline for that is "Ford is promising a future of electrified vehicles, and the Mustang Hybrid is just the start"?

 

Short note on the hybrid F-150 - https://www.tfltruck.com/2018/01/learn-little-2020-ford-f150-hybrid-detroit/

Edited April 26, 2018 by Cobra348

[murphy]

I don't want a Mustang or an SUV or a truck. I still have my 2013 Fusion Energi but I am on my second Tesla model S since I bought the Energi. The Energi should have had its electric range tripled by now. The Honda Clarity PHEV is rated at 47 miles electric.

[md13ffhguy]

I agree with the sentiment here. I've owned 5 sedans over the past 25 or so years. I have a truck, but it's for when I need a truck. No interest in driving that thing on a daily commute.

 

@Cobra348, I agree with reducing trim lines, but in my mind Platinum and Titanium are both more than what I need. Nicely equipped SE level cars suit my needs and my wallet just fine.

[md13ffhguy]

Also, regarding sedans, I prefer driving a car over an SUV, especially over my long commute or longer trips. I also like having room for passengers. You can't put adults in the back of a Mustang.

[mwr]

"Ford is willingly alienating its car owners" - Like me and I assume most of those here. I remember an online questionnaire Ford sent me after a service visit that asked "Do you love Ford?". Ha ha...

 

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/ford-beats-on-first-quarter-earnings-says-turnaround-well-under-way-14568881

[lolder]

If that's so, why are they touting a hybrid Mustang, an AWD Mustang, a hybrid F-150, a diesel F-150? If they were gonna get out of electric, I would think the hybrids would not be on this list. And the hybrid Mustang has been written about as well as confirmed at Carlisle.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-ford-mustang-hybrid-what-to-expect/

 

Note - headline for that is "Ford is promising a future of electrified vehicles, and the Mustang Hybrid is just the start"?

 

Short note on the hybrid F-150 - https://www.tfltruck.com/2018/01/learn-little-2020-ford-f150-hybrid-detroit/

All of them still burn fuel and they already have the hybrid technology and they still have the same profit centers for the manufacturer and the dealers. The lower servicing expected of pure electrics wipes out most of the dealer profit center and completely changes the current manufacturer-dealer relationship.

[mwr]

The lower servicing expected of pure electrics wipes out most of the dealer profit center and completely changes the current manufacturer-dealer relationship.

Even with non-electrics there is far less $ needed for routine servicing than there used to be.

[Waldo]

 

ADDED IN: Read the comments at the end of the article. Lots of Ford owners going elsewhere if Ford does this. Henry Ford wanted to make cars that everyone could afford. Well, now his company will focus on anything BUT everyday cars. Good move!

 

I think you're completely missing the point here. Everyday cars are not sedans anymore. And who said anything about affordability? The new Ecosport is the same price as a Focus. You can get the same utility in an Escape as a Fusion for the same price and when the next gen comes out in a hybrid, it will get roughly the same fuel economy.

 

In fact if you think about a Model T, what is it more similar to today - a Fusion or an Escape?

[ptjones]

Maybe that is why NASCAR is going to the mustang next year.

 

Paul

[Texasota]

All of this boils down to customer demand. SUVs are what people are buying and far fewer traditional sedans are being purchased. Survey your typical Walmart parking lot, the parking lot of the nearby apartment/condo complex, or the residential driveways of your neighbors. They are full of SUVs and trucks. People love them and that is where the demand is.

 

I prefer a sedan like most others here, but I don't see how it makes sense to get angry at any manufacturer for focusing on products that are in demand and are selling well. Selling low volume products with low profit margins is a recipe for financial failure for any company.

[Cobra348]

I agree with the sentiment here. I've owned 5 sedans over the past 25 or so years. I have a truck, but it's for when I need a truck. No interest in driving that thing on a daily commute.

 

@Cobra348, I agree with reducing trim lines, but in my mind Platinum and Titanium are both more than what I need. Nicely equipped SE level cars suit my needs and my wallet just fine.

But that's just you. But let's go with it ennyhoo.

Gas Fusion - SE, Titanium. For Titanium, Sport is an option pkg; moonroof is already an option and adding that is essentially a Platinum.

Hybrid Fusion - SE, Titanium. No Sport option on Titanium, same moonroof idea.

 

I don't want a truck nor an SUV. Mustangs are useless in the Winters here and for the price I'd be stupid to drive one in the salted roadways. I have a warranty until 8/30/22 or 100K miles. When it runs out, I'm gone.

[Cobra348]

 

I think you're completely missing the point here. Everyday cars are not sedans anymore. And who said anything about affordability? The new Ecosport is the same price as a Focus. You can get the same utility in an Escape as a Fusion for the same price and when the next gen comes out in a hybrid, it will get roughly the same fuel economy.

 

In fact if you think about a Model T, what is it more similar to today - a Fusion or an Escape?

Nope, you're missing the point. Cars comprise 30+% of all unit sales ... without trucks in the mix they are about 40%. A lot of people do not want high-priced sports cars or an SUV or truck. That is the point. For me Focus is too small, Ecosport IS a Focus underneath.

 

And Model T is a car thus a Fusion (not Escape). Poor ole Henry is prolly rolling in his grave - especially since the guy doing this has no prior automotive experience.

[Cobra348]

All of this boils down to customer demand. SUVs are what people are buying and far fewer traditional sedans are being purchased. Survey your typical Walmart parking lot, the parking lot of the nearby apartment/condo complex, or the residential driveways of your neighbors. They are full of SUVs and trucks. People love them and that is where the demand is.

 

I prefer a sedan like most others here, but I don't see how it makes sense to get angry at any manufacturer for focusing on products that are in demand and are selling well. Selling low volume products with low profit margins is a recipe for financial failure for any company.

SUVs and trucks are LARGE profit items whereas cars are typically lower profit margins. They are gearing for windfall profits per sale than accepting any and all profit they can make. Selll 20 Fusions and potentially make as much profit as a couple trucks or 1 Mustang. I tell ya, they want the windfall cash, not a trickle.

 

And if sedans, etc are not in demand how come I see a boatload of Fiestas, Focus and Fusions all over my burg. As well as Chevy, Honda, Mazda, etc. As to trucks, Rams are more populous here than F-150.

 

Interesting sale figures for 2018 to date ...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/04/26/ford-has-been-synonymous-with-cars-for-more-than-a-century-thats-about-to-change/?utm_term=.2eaa875cf481

 

Look at last paragraph where Fusion sales > Focus sales > Mustang sales. I grant profit margin on Mustang is larger than the other two but Fusion outsells the one model they are gonna keep! Whut?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Cobra348

[LASooner]

If the Fusion sells so bad, why do I see them everywhere?

[djminfll]

I can't believe how shortsighted Ford is being. The Fusion is more than just the Hybrid version, there are also multiple Gas powered versions. The same thing with the Taurus, the Focus, the Fiesta. But shouldn't the decision makers at Ford realize that our low gas prices are not going to remain this low forever? Once prices surpass a certain threshold, people will be dumping their SUVs. Anybody remember Hummer? And when this happens, where will they go? Honda, Toyota, Hyundai. And Ford will be racing to play catch up.

I agree with the members who posted earlier that they would be better off cutting back on their trim lines - I mean, does the Fusion really have to be made available with no less than SIX different engines? And this doesn't even take into account how much money they spent on creating the new Lincoln Continental, only to determine that it will also be cut when the Fusion and Taurus are discontinued.

Sad to think that my next car will probably be a Honda Accord Hybrid :(

[Cobra348]

I can't believe how shortsighted Ford is being. The Fusion is more than just the Hybrid version, there are also multiple Gas powered versions. The same thing with the Taurus, the Focus, the Fiesta. But shouldn't the decision makers at Ford realize that our low gas prices are not going to remain this low forever? Once prices surpass a certain threshold, people will be dumping their SUVs. Anybody remember Hummer? And when this happens, where will they go? Honda, Toyota, Hyundai. And Ford will be racing to play catch up.

I agree with the members who posted earlier that they would be better off cutting back on their trim lines - I mean, does the Fusion really have to be made available with no less than SIX different engines? And this doesn't even take into account how much money they spent on creating the new Lincoln Continental, only to determine that it will also be cut when the Fusion and Taurus are discontinued.

Sad to think that my next car will probably be a Honda Accord Hybrid :(

The multiple versions is what has hampered Ford in some ways. It's major confusing to some people. I read somewhere a bit back that Fusions had >30K different possible combinations. That's a lot! It's also the reason I made the suggestion above of trimming the models down to a really manageable set of things.

 

I've already looked a little bit even tho my warranty is solid for a while. Chevy Malibu has a hybrid variant. I might go that way. I'm not keen on going to a make where the world HQ is not in the US so some of the others are out. Also, Nissan, VW and Toyota left a bad taste in my mouth with the cars I had from them.

 

Gas will get back to $4/gallon or more and Ford will be completely out of that niche. Idiotic ... really not smart at all.

 

 

ADDED: Oh wow! I just caught the article linked below. Ford announced the car cuts in the same press conference where they announced a first-quarter 1.7B profit! https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/04/25/ford-quarterly-profit-cuts-lineup/549463002/

Edited April 27, 2018 by Cobra348

[Waldo]

I don't understand why everyone is playing the "gas prices will go up and change everything" again. It's true gas prices went up in the past, then they came back down. There's no fundamental reason they will go up and stay up for any extended period of time. Betting your company's future on a potential gas spike is really not a long term strategy. And besides, Ford is still engineering, developing and building small cars and sedans for the rest of the world, so they could always bring them back if trends change.

 

Don't get caught up in sales numbers, Ford (and any well run business) doesn't care about sales, they care about margins. The margin in the cars is so small that you could sell 500,000 Fusions and still not make as much money as the 10,000 Navigators they plan to sell. So why tie up all that production capacity and overhead for poor returns?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Waldo

[Texasota]

They are gearing for windfall profits per sale than accepting any and all profit they can make. Selll 20 Fusions and potentially make as much profit as a couple trucks or 1 Mustang. I tell ya, they want the windfall cash, not a trickle.

 

 

Oh wow! I just caught the article linked below. Ford announced the car cuts in the same press conference where they announced a first-quarter 1.7B profit! https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/04/25/ford-quarterly-profit-cuts-lineup/549463002/

 

And what the heck is wrong with that? Companies are in business to maximize profit and that is what they are suppose to do for their share holders. A company that successfully changes and adapts to changing customer demand will be successful. A company that does not compete to build what customers are demanding will not be competitive and likely will not survive. Capitalism at it's best!

 

There is a very simple reason why some vehicles have a profit margin equivalent to 20 Fusions (or whatever). Its because customers are willing to pay that price. Its customer demand.

 

I'm not getting why we are not cheering this? Ford is making changes that will ensure it has a profitable future. I get that many (most?) of us on this forum prefer sedans but there were a lot of people that preferred horse drawn carriages instead of horseless carriages. Which companies survived and prospered?

[md13ffhguy]

I'm not getting why we are not cheering this?

I'm not cheering or particularly upset about it. Really, I'm just a bit baffled. It's odd to think that when we're next in the market for vehicles, Ford may not be offering anything we'd be interested in buying. Or, maybe our interests will change...?

 

Btw, I read that Ford had confirmed final production for Focus, Fiesta, and Taurus, but left the door open for Fusion... so, you never know.

[Cobra348]

I do understand the need for Ford and others to make a profit. However when Ford essentially torpedos products that comprise about 30% of their sales it's a very baffling move. I've been reading articles on Autoblog and elsewhere and for the main part they are also confused by the radical move although understanding of why.

 

In these articles, I read comments that folks left and a large number would like Fusion retained but with trimmed models/options ... sort of like what has been discussed a bit here. Even pickup owners have remarked that **some** semblance of sedans should remain.

 

I''m not liking this one darn bit. I chose Ford years back because they had good looking cars that met my needs and didn't take the Feds up on bailout cash in '08. Articles also hint that GM is pretty much heading the same way as well. Essentially I see that the US auto makers are gonna hand off the car market to companies whose world HQ is outside the US.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Cobra348

[Texasota]

However when Ford essentially torpedos products that comprise about 30% of their sales it's a very baffling move. I've been reading articles on Autoblog and elsewhere and for the main part they are also confused by the radical move although understanding of why.

 

I''m not liking this one darn bit. I chose Ford years back because they had good looking cars that met my needs and didn't take the Feds up on bailout cash in '08. Articles also hint that GM is pretty much heading the same way as well. Essentially I see that the US auto makers are gonna hand off the car market to companies whose world HQ is outside the US.

I like Ford, I like the Fusion, I love that Ford did not take a government bailout but there is nothing at all baffling about this. Ford (like any company) has a finite set of resources to invest in research/design for new vehicles. Ford has made a decision to invest those finite resources in vehicles that are in demand and have a higher profit margin. That means a bigger return for each dollar invested in product development. This makes total sense. Its right for the company and its right for the share holder.

 

The unhappy thing for us here is that we prefer sedans and presumably the majority of us on this forum love the Fusion. We don't want it to go away. But, we are far outnumbered by the number of people that love SUVs and trucks (and to a lesser degree mini-vans). I've never owned an SUV but I'm going to have to take a look when it is time to say goodbye to my FFH. There must be legitimate reasons why SUVs are so popular and I'm willing to give them a look, especially if Waldo is correct about the MPGs of SUVs becoming competitive with the FFH. Maybe it is not such a big leap for me. I use to own station wagons and an SUV is similar in a lot of ways to a station wagon.

 

Waldo, what can you share about future Ford SUVs that might interest us Fusion bigots?

[Cobra348]

I started looking. Chevy Malibu hybrid for starters. EPA estimates are better than Fusion, HP rating a bit lower. Biggest complaint seems to be the entry being cramped and rear window being restricted. There's a Chevy dealer about 15 miles from me and I may look at Malibu - in general - to get a feel. FCA (Chrysler) is out as I do not want a 300. But I also have a bad taste from some of the non-US brands ... cars falling apart (new ones at that!), lack of support from dealers, etc. I still have some warranty time but it won't hurt to get ideas.

 

And I'm sticking with hybrids ... I can thumb my nose at everyone else who can't get more than 30 MPG.