155 replies to this topic

[md13ffhguy]

 
That's my point, it would be better if it was the actual grill.  But with the shutters the air basically forms a high pressure block of stagnant air in front of the shutter so that the incoming air is redirected around the grill.  Think of it like a lake, the water flows into a lake, then it flows out on the other side but the water at the bottom of the lake doesn't really move.

That seems like a good analogy!

[ptjones]

I stuck a video camera in the grill and watched the shutter operation. I was surprised to find out the shutters stay closed till 210*F at 50 mph and 215*F at 70 mph. Now in theory you would want shutters closed all the time from an aerodynamic stand point, especially when you are going fast.   From a practical stand point it would seem the shutters are there to heat up the ICE and Grill Covers are better for doing both by up to 4 mpg.

 

Paul  

[bdginmo]

I stuck a video camera in the grill and watched the shutter operation. I was surprised to find out the shutters stay closed till 210*F at 50 mph and 215*F at 70 mph. Now in theory you would want shutters closed all the time from an aerodynamic stand point, especially when you are going fast.   From a practical stand point it would seem the shutters are there to heat up the ICE and Grill Covers are better for doing both by up to 4 mpg.

 

Paul  

 

I just a did 300 mile drive and I was paying attention to the ICE temp with my ScanGauge. In my 2015 FFE it never got above 196F and it seemed to want to hug 184F'ish most of the time. I wonder if our cars have slightly different programming or tuning parameters for the thermal control.

[ptjones]

 

I just a did 300 mile drive and I was paying attention to the ICE temp with my ScanGauge. In my 2015 FFE it never got above 196F and it seemed to want to hug 184F'ish most of the time. I wonder if our cars have slightly different programming or tuning parameters for the thermal control.

I don't think so, where you using the A/C, the shutters open up then and radiator fan is running. Going uphill the temps will rise noticeably after awhile.  thermostat starts to open at 182*F and is fully open at 202*F.

 

Just got back from trip using the A/C and it reminded me that the Radiator Fan is running all the time when A/C on. This effects gas mileage in two ways, one the fan and A/C pump use electricity from battery and  the fan lowers WT to below Operating temp for the ICE.  BTW YouTube views are up to 400 now.

 

Paul  

[bdginmo]

Okay, yeah, I had the A/C on so that probably explains it. I know I've seen it above 200F before...just haven't paid attention enough to get a feel for how the temperature behaves under different scenarios except to say the correlation between ICE temp and mpg is very noticeable.

Edited by bdginmo, 10 May 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[ptjones]

Okay, yeah, I had the A/C on so that probably explains it. I know I've seen it above 200F before...just haven't paid attention enough to get a feel for how the temperature behaves under different scenarios except to say the correlation between ICE temp and mpg is very noticeable.

This is true. With the thermostat opening at 182*F the WT rise is slow because of the cold coolant from the radiator. I also have two oil pan heater pads on the bottom of ICE that increase WT by 5-10*F over what it normally would be.

 

Paul  

[Texasota]

 

Changing the thermostat would not produce the same effect.  The airflow coming into the engine compartment will slow down the heating of the engine the same way no matter what the thermostat is set to up until the point that it opens.

That makes sense and I see your point (the grill shutters, when closed, shorten the amount of time for the ICE to reach operating temperature). I can see how that would be beneficial on short city trips in cold temperatures. However, on a longer road trip I would think the quicker warmup time becomes negligible to the point where it would have almost no effect on overall MPG but the aerodynamic effect does provide a positive effect on MPG.

[ptjones]

With a cold ICE it takes 20 miles with Grill Covers on to get to operating temps, you would have to be going pretty fast to get up to operating temps with the Grill Covers off.

Paul

[ptjones]

Up to 458 views for My YouTube Videos and 2013 CMAX MPG's on Fuelly have gone up about .5 MPG's.  I haven't kept track of FFH mileage, I looked at Fuelly.com and it appears that FFH are averaging about the same as CMAX mileage. It would have been nice if Fuelly would have separated Hybrids from  regular FF.IMO

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I was wondering if anyone has looked into a ECM Tuner for our Hybrids to improve fuel economy?

 

Paul

[Waldo]

How would a tuner improve fuel economy?  Are you thinking some guy with a tuning shop can come up with a better solution than all the engineers at Ford who have all the resources and experience?  Now there's probably some opportunity if you wanted to compromise things thing durability, emissions, battery life or maybe even NVH (let the engine lug more), but I can't imagine there's much of a market for that.

Edited by Waldo, 16 May 2017 - 07:23 AM.

[ptjones]

How would a tuner improve fuel economy?  Are you thinking some guy with a tuning shop can come up with a better solution than all the engineers at Ford who have all the resources and experience?  Now there's probably some opportunity if you wanted to compromise things thing durability, emissions, battery life or maybe even NVH (let the engine lug more), but I can't imagine there's much of a market for that.

I talked to HyperTech and said they thought it would be to complicated with all the Hybrid Systems. Tuners improve Performance and Fuel Economy for lots of vehicles or Hypertech and others would be out in business. My personal experience is with 2006 FORD F250 PowerStroke, I was getting upto 21.5 mpg on HWY and upto 16mpg towing car hauling trailer. That was a great truck, I hated selling it.

 

Paul

Edited by ptjones, 16 May 2017 - 02:16 PM.

[Waldo]

Anyone can tune a diesel to get more power and fuel economy if they don't have to worry about emissions.  Just ask Volkswagen...

[ptjones]

Even FORD makes upgrades to their own FORD Cars so they know they can do better than stock.   FORD makes cars to make money, not the best cars they can.  When they make a New Car they start with a price point, so when they design the car and manufacture it, it needs to be under that price point or they don't make money.

2015-2017 MUSTANG GT PERFORMANCE CALIBRATION POWER PACK 1

Link: https://performancep.../part/M-9603-M8

 

My videos show what FORD could have done to improve Fuel Economy and didn't.  Other than the ECM update in July of 2013, FORD hasn't done anything to improve FE and the information I have in the videos was on the Forums since December 2012.  It would have been nice if FORD would have kept improving the Hybrids. IMO

Paul

[stlouisgeorge]

Where is your video?  You should add the link in your signature!

[ptjones]

Where is your video?  You should add the link in your signature!

The videos are on Post #1.  I will try to figure out how to do that. Thanks

 

Paul

[ptjones]

With warmer temps (80-90*F) speeds 40-55 mph and a bike on the back half the time, I'm getting 60.5mpg, with 230 miles on this tank. Using the info from these videos you should expect similar MPG's. 

 

Videos: http://fordfusionhyb...at-gas-mileage/

 

Paul

[ptjones]

YouTube Video views are up to 548 and between three FORD CMAX/FFH Forums we are up to 3280 views.  Current tank at 59.4 mpg at 411 miles, looking like I'll reach 800 miles on this tank.  Has anyone been using this technique seen an improvement in mpg's?

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Just filled up my tank, actual 59.9 mpg,826 mi. and 13.8 gal.  So about 50% HWY with 2- 100 mi. trips on I-85/I-285 and about 30% of the time with bike on bike rack. 

This is just an idea of what can be done now with all the tips from the YouTube videos and warmer temps.

 

Paul 

[ptjones]

Just got back from Lighthouse trip to Virginia Coast and figured out a strategy for keeping WT up when using A/C. I turn the A/C on going uphill when I need the ICE and turn the A/C button off going down hill, still leave fan on in recirculate. This turns off the Radiator fan when the ICE isn't creating heat and keeps WT higher, I was seeing 170's *F WT with A/C on all the time with center Grill Cover and partial Grill Cover on and OT around 90*F.

 

Paul