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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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Five fillups

MPG

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23 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Frank F

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:41 PM

After 5 fillups:

Distance - Average:

 

340 @ 45,4

210 @ 50.8

340 @ 40.7

336 @ 40.3

485 @ 47.4

 

For a weighted average (if my arithmetic is correct) of about 44.7.

 

I suspect the 50.8 was a case of not filling the tank enough.  Since the third fill, I've been filling on slowest automatic pump setting, waiting till shut off, then waiting about 4 seconds, filling with hand, second shutoff, wait about 4 seconds, filling with hand, and getting 3rd shutoff.

 









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#2 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:28 AM

It's not uncommon for me to get 50 mpg tanks especially in warm weather. When filling up I do one automatic shutoff and one manual shutoff. Like you I've seen too many times where the automatic shutoff does not fill the tank all the way. But, I also don't want to overfill or top-off either so one manual shutoff seems like a good compromise.


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#3 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:25 PM

Are these numbers calculated from the receipt information or trip meter/car comp?  The trip and car comps are off as much as 3 MPG from receipts many times.  I filled up today for the closest - 4/10 MPG difference between receipt and comp.

 

Fill method I use:  fill until shutoff, pause for slow count of 5 then about 1/4 open on the pump until shutoff.  Repeat pause and 1/4 open one more time.  No overflow occurs but also does not overfill.


Edited by Cobra348, 26 February 2017 - 07:27 PM.

Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, auto wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice


#4 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 08:05 PM

I used to use a "fill method," but now I just let the pump call the shots. It's all the same in the end, and my data did not prove to be any more consistent.

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#5 OFFLINE   Frank F

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:47 AM

Are these numbers calculated from the receipt information or trip meter/car comp?  The trip and car comps are off as much as 3 MPG from receipts many times.  I filled up today for the closest - 4/10 MPG difference between receipt and comp.

 

Fill method I use:  fill until shutoff, pause for slow count of 5 then about 1/4 open on the pump until shutoff.  Repeat pause and 1/4 open one more time.  No overflow occurs but also does not overfill.

These are calculated from the pump receipt.  I.e miles / fuel quantity.  I haven't been paying too much attention to the vehicle's display at fill-up time, although, the most recent (bottom) one, the vehicle said 47.1 mpg average.

I believe the two in the 40.x range were displaying >=45 mpg on vehicle display.



#6 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 12:48 PM

After hand calculating mine for over 20,000 miles the trip computer was very close to 2.25 MPG optimistic. Others have mentioned that the odometer has some error (on the pessimistic side) which I have never tried to measure. This would suggest that the actual figure would be a little less than 2.25.


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#7 OFFLINE   Griswald

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:10 PM

How can you be certain that the vehicles calculations are "off"?

 

In the same line, how can you be sure that "your" calculations are 'right"?

 

Unless you add a calibrated external measuring wheel and a calibrated gasoline container, your numbers are guesses, just like the manufactures numbers.



#8 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:07 PM

How can you be certain that the vehicles calculations are "off"?

 

In the same line, how can you be sure that "your" calculations are 'right"?

 

Unless you add a calibrated external measuring wheel and a calibrated gasoline container, your numbers are guesses, just like the manufactures numbers.

 

My calculations were simple. I just divided miles driven (from trip 1 computer ) by gallons to fill the tank. This was recorded in my spreadsheet along with the trip 1 computer's MPG claim. Granted there is a lot of variability in one tank (uneven ground, different pumps, one vs two clicks etc) but tracking this in a spreadsheet for ~20,000 miles I assume the cumulative result to be a reasonably accurate comparison.

 

I did not claim in my above post that my numbers were 100% accurate. I was simply comparing my spread sheet calculations to the trip computer's calculation and they differ by ~2.25 MPG. This is consistent with results posted by other forum members.



#9 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 02:20 PM

You can use Fuelly.com to record your fillup info and display it on this Forum. My CMAX with OEM Michelin tires is off by +1.8% of Odometer so that works out to about +1 mpg it seems like all members have come up with similar amounts.  Use portable GPS to figure out the difference. :)

 

Paul


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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#10 OFFLINE   Griswald

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:47 AM

But you are still "guessing " at miles driven and gallons used, no matter what calculation you use.



#11 OFFLINE   Frank F

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:46 AM

But you are still "guessing " at miles driven and gallons used, no matter what calculation you use.

I'm not following your logic.  Are you saying the vehicle odometers and the gasoline pumps also "guess" at quantities?  Or are you implying there's error in the measured quantities?  If so, I'll assume you too are "guessing" at how much error.

I get the impression you're saying "We don't have any idea what fuel economy we are getting.  It can say 44.7, but it could be 12, it could be 78, because all we are doing is guessing."


Edited by Frank F, 01 March 2017 - 10:48 AM.


#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:41 AM

But you are still "guessing " at miles driven and gallons used, no matter what calculation you use.

I'm confused too. :shift:  I have done a number of GPS tests up to 400 miles and coming up with the same 1.8% off. As far as filling up goes, that gets averaged out in Fuelly.com with multiple fillups.  I have 247 fillups  with 47.6 mpg on Fuelly and 48.6 mpg on my Life Time /smart Gauge. :)  One mpg difference.

 

Paul


163299.png 600 Club

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#13 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:33 PM

But you are still "guessing " at miles driven and gallons used, no matter what calculation you use.

I am using the car's odometer reading of miles driven and the gas pump's digital reading of gallons pumped. Granted both have some relatively small amount of error but the data being used are not guesses.

 

I believe there are three key sources that contribute to error in the hand calculations and the MPG as reported by the trip computer:

  1. The error in miles traveled as reported by my FFH's odometer
  2. The error in gallons dispensed as reported by the gas pump's digital readout
  3. The error in gallons used as reported by my FFH's fuel metering (used by the trip computer to report MPG)

There are also other sources of error such as inconsistent topping off of the fuel tank but this would become negligible over the course of ~20,000 miles.  This is only speculation on my part, but I suspect the largest source of error is #3.



#14 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:36 PM

But you are still "guessing " at miles driven and gallons used, no matter what calculation you use.

 

Not really, those are both required by the government to hold a certain level of accuracy.  The MPG display in a car is not.



#15 OFFLINE   Frank F

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:12 PM

So if we know the error / uncertainty range, then we could more accurately say something like "44.4 mpg ± 4.4 mpg" (10% inaccuracy), or "44.4 mpg ± 0.4 mpg" (1% inaccuracy).

I, like everyone else here am not buying the "we have absolutely no idea if your hybrid is getting better fuel economy than that Ford GT right next to you."  -- not that anyone is implying it's that severe of "guessing."
 

From everything I've read on this site, the mpg postings from odometer and fuel receipts appear to be reasonable.



#16 OFFLINE   Griswald

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:29 PM

All I am saying is that "your"number can be off just like the cars number.



#17 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:15 PM

Fuel pump metering is very accurate (required by law to be within 0.3%). I'd imagine the odometer is less accurate, but not unreasonably so; maybe on the order of a couple % at most. The odometer is probably biased high or low. You could use a GPS logger/tracker to get a pretty accurate reading to see what the error is on your odometer. It would be interesting if someone could do the experiment to quantify the error of both the computer and the manual calculation. I would, but honestly I'm just not terribly interested in this one.


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#18 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:18 PM

All I am saying is that "your" number can be off just like the cars number.

 

This is without question true. The trip 1 computer and the hand calculations are both using the car's odometer which means the odometer error is present in both MPG calculations. That leaves the two different methods of measuring fuel consumption to explain the discrepancy.



#19 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:58 PM

But you are still "guessing " at miles driven and gallons used, no matter what calculation you use.

That's always been my contention, too. However, I've decided that the pump (any pump) displays the most correct number. It's the number of gallons I've actually PAID for. ;)

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#20 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:01 AM

All I am saying is that "your"number can be off just like the cars number.

Right, there's error and variance to account for, but as mentioned, it eventually averages out, or is at least minimized.

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