2010 Fusion Hybrid, tire pressure concerns

[GentDiors]

So the TPMS warning came on in my recently acquired used 10 Fusion hybrid 3-4 weeks ago, so I immediately went to costco and top everything off to 33psi (labeled on the door), but apparently not the cold psi (since I drove for about 5-6 miles). I noticed that the LF tire was in need of a few pumps to beep (costo's automatic system beeps once you reach the psi), all three others almost beeped instantly after the air hose was on.

 

It went on again last night, so I took it to Goodyear, where the previous owner bought the tires new from (3 yrs, less than 40k miles). He also had a repair receipt a year ago showing "slow leak" but for RF tire at Goodyear as well. Wasted about 3 hrs, and was told they found nothing in LF tire, but RF has a hole too close to the side to patch and wanted me to change a new tire at the location. I declined thinking I needed more info on the purchase, plus the goodyear dude off the line told me that it should be pluggable but they (or other corporate stores like costco, mr.tire etc) policy wouldn't allow that.

 

I took off, but noticed that this time the tpms warning was still on, so I drove to a garage down the road and checked the tire pressure on four tires, surprising, the LF has only 25ish psi, while all others are around 30-33psi. So I top the tires off to about 35 psi and again the warning went off. I drove back to the store and demanded explanation, but they insisted the illogical answer that the leak was on RF since they saw bubble on it, but nothing on the LF. I asked if they checked the rim, wheel, seal, and they insisted that they did all they could do.

 

I'm greatly puzzled here:

1. First of all, where are the 10 Fusion's tpms sensor? When filling air at the garage, the tech went out with me and told me that all my tires do not have the sensor, since there were no metal attachment on the stem. But apparently the car is sensing the psi..

 

2. What could be the possible reason for the loss of pressure in my LF tire. I don't want to be scammed to buy a new RF tire, while the real problem was the left. I don't know if they checked all tires, sounds like they did not submerge the tire in water (after remove it from the rim), but just soapy water tested them, and apparently did not top off the air.

 

3. Where can I get it plugged if indeed the RF has a hole as they claimed? Or should I get 2nd opinion on that based on their shady work today.

 

Thanks a lot.

[Waldo]

It's quite possible you have a leak in both front tires. Could be they found the leak in the RF and topped it off but it will be low again soon. Or could be that it's a screw or something that's caused a hole but is not yet leaking. Either way, if they found a bubble, you should be able to see it too.

 

Ford's earlier TPMS systems were the band-style, so you would not see the sensor from the outside.

[GentDiors]

What could the LF tire's leaking? They claimed that they could find nothing for LF after doing all their usual stuff, no bubble etc. But in reality, LF seems to be the one dropping psi fastest. And how soon should I get these repaired or replaced, or I can just keep an eye on the air pressure until I can find a garage for 2nd opinion? These tires stil have 7/32 or more tread left, so I'd rather hang on to them if repairable, and replace the whole set later on.

 

Edit: After reading a bit, I realize the danger of driving with a leaky FRONT tire. I will probably get a local repair shop to take a look at it again soon and determine if I will need new tires...

 

Got the freaking car only a month ago..

Edited November 18, 2016 by GentDiors

[tr7driver]

Do you and the dealer use the same definition for determining left and right?

[GentDiors]

Driver side for me is the left. Is that universal definition?

[GentDiors]

Another question is, for these early TPMS sensor (band type), any precautions when changing for repair tires? Any need for reset or protection when changing a tire? Plus is is built in on the wheel/rim? So if the wheel needs to be replaced, the sensor needs replacement as well? Just heard some stories on how these sensors are expensive and the tire places butchered the process and destroy those easily.

[GentDiors]

Update: I took it to a gas station that I used to go to for plugging and stood with the mechanic to check. He checked the pressure on LF and RF before doing anything, LF was around 35psi and RF was about 33psi. There was indeed a nail and bubbles after soapy water spray at the right front tire (passenger side), but there was nothing showing up for the left front tire (he sprayed the LF pretty thorough, including the rim, the valve stem etc). Mechanic told me that if I noticed drop in pressure on left front, the only thing I could do is to go to a tire place with water tank that can submerge the whole tire to check, but he also mentioned that it was kinda rare for a leak that soapy water solution couldn't find.

 

He supposedly put in 35psi to the right front after plugging it a week ago, but this morning I used the craftsman digital tire gauge to check all four tires after the car was parked overnight in the garage. LF is 31psi, RF 32.5psi, LR is 34.5 psi, RR is 34psi. I aired all three up to ~35psi (with LF close to 37psi) two weeks ago after my initial goodyear experience. If assuming nobody touched the air pressure over this time period, then LF was losing about 6psi over two weeks' time? Could it be something else?

[lolder]

As the temperature gets colder the pressure will go down but that should affect all four tires. The tire pressure sensors are part of the valve stems and are inside the tire. You have to deflate the tire and get it partially off the rim to replace it. The lithium batteries in them are non replaceable and are supposed to last about 10 years but I had one fail at 5. The others are still OK at 7 1/2 years. The sensors are about $35-40 and removing the tire is $10-20 so it's pricey to change one. The OEM Michelins last about 60k miles so that would be about 5 years. At the second tire replacement at 120K, I'd replace all the sensors.

[GentDiors]

Thanks for the reply. I guess my concern is, if I go to a tire place and ask them to dismount the tire and water test in a tub to look for slow leak, will that affect the TPMS at all that requires special precautions?

 

Another question is what exactly is 2010 fusion hybrid's tpms, I googled it, and saw two different answers, some are claiming that since 2010 Ford changed the TPMS to the valve stem type, but most of the stem type tpms sensor has this metal attachment thing that looks different than an old-fashion stem valve (mine looks like that). And a the user manual does not call for any "retraining" after changing tires. A little confused here.

[billford]

From my info, all Fusions, 2009 tpms is in the center of the rim and uses a big clamp. 2010 and up, its in the valve stem.

 

Don't have to dismount a tire from the rim to check for leaks and it should not affect the tpms. But dismounting may be necessary to inspect the inside tire lining, could be damaged if the tire was driven when flat.

 

Only time you have to retrain tires is after rotation, if the front and rear tire pressures are different like in some pickup trucks. And retraining is needed after replacing a sensor.

 

Sensors are easily broken if the tire is removed from the rim incorrectly.

Edited December 4, 2016 by billford

[lolder]

Immersing an inflated whole wheel to check for leaks should not hurt the sensor. Bubble checks should find almost everything except wheel hub defects.

[GentDiors]

Immersing an inflated whole wheel to check for leaks should not hurt the sensor. Bubble checks should find almost everything except wheel hub defects.

 

 

From my info, all Fusions, 2009 tpms is in the center of the rim and uses a big clamp. 2010 and up, its in the valve stem.

 

Don't have to dismount a tire from the rim to check for leaks and it should not affect the tpms. But dismounting may be necessary to inspect the inside tire lining, could be damaged if the tire was driven when flat.

 

Only time you have to retrain tires is after rotation, if the front and rear tire pressures are different like in some pickup trucks. And retraining is needed after replacing a sensor.

 

Sensors are easily broken if the tire is removed from the rim incorrectly.

 

But if they need to clean up the rim, then it requires dismount the tire right. What should I told them to pay attention to (regarding the tpms)?

 

I'm certain now, with my own gauge measurement (cold), the LF indeed has a slow leak of 3-4psi/week, all three other tires seem to be fine.

 

I called up the first Goodyear, and talked to the guy who persuaded me that they did everything and found nothing on LF. He sounded really pessimistic about finding "such a slow leak" even with the water tank, and toned it as if I need to just live with it.

 

2nd shop was much better in explaining the thing they would do, but without a water tube, they would have to take off the tire from the car lay on the ground and check. And he mentioned it could more possibly be bead leak than other causes, which was indeed harder to find with tire on the car. But they requested me drop off the car for a majority of the day.

 

Should I give that Goodyear another shot?

[billford]

 

 

 

But if they need to clean up the rim, then it requires dismount the tire right. What should I told them to pay attention to (regarding the tpms)?

 

 

You do not need to dismount it to check for a leak, but you need to dismount it to do a proper repair, either a patch from the inside or a rim clean.

A tire shop will know about the tpms dismount procedure. Sensors have been out for several years now.

[murphy]

 

You do not need to dismount it to check for a leak, but you need to dismount it to do a proper repair, either a patch from the inside or a rim clean.

A tire shop will know about the tpms dismount procedure. Sensors have been out for several years now.

 

Actually they have been required for about 20 years.

[Texasota]

Actually they have been required for about 20 years.

Are you saying tire pressure sensors have been required for 20 years? If so, then I don't think that is true. I have owned several cars far less than 20 years old and they do not have tire pressure sensors.

[murphy]

Are you saying tire pressure sensors have been required for 20 years? If so, then I don't think that is true. I have owned several cars far less than 20 years old and they do not have tire pressure sensors.

Sorry, I was thinking of the ODB II port.

 

TPMS has been required since September 1, 2007.

 

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TPMSfinalrule.6/TPMSfinalrule.6.html