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No more Fusion Hybrid in 2019?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 07:08 PM

I saw this in another forum, scroll down to the Fusion section:

http://www.autonews....ds-starts-in-18

 

 


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#2 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:02 PM

Well, I really love my hybrid, but sometimes I do wish it was a plugin. Besides, plugins are basically hybrids with more capacity.

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#3 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 05:28 AM

Well, I really love my hybrid, but sometimes I do wish it was a plugin. Besides, plugins are basically hybrids with more capacity.

Sort of.  The engine in my Energi started for the first time in 6 months a couple of days ago.  I can do my short range driving most of the time without the engine except in winter.



#4 OFFLINE   talmy

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 10:03 AM

If the 2019 is a complete redesign, they might get better space utilization so the trunk won't suffer so much with the Energi. We can just get by with the hybrid when we travel and it's only the two of us. Don't know how families cope.



#5 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 12:32 PM

If the 2019 is a complete redesign, they might get better space utilization so the trunk won't suffer so much with the Energi. We can just get by with the hybrid when we travel and it's only the two of us. Don't know how families cope.

Our FFH taught us (just the wife and me) how to travel with less and we quickly learned we don't need all the stuff we previously hauled around with us. When away for 3+ months we have learned that we do just fine with two medium suitcases in the trunk and two small travel bags in the backseat that go into the hotel with us each night. Travel is easier and less complicated with less stuff.



#6 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:16 PM

Our FFH taught us (just the wife and me) how to travel with less and we quickly learned we don't need all the stuff we previously hauled around with us. When away for 3+ months we have learned that we do just fine with two medium suitcases in the trunk and two small travel bags in the backseat that go into the hotel with us each night. Travel is easier and less complicated with less stuff.

We learned that 'less stuff' lesson back when we bought our new 2003 Ford Mustang GT 'vert with a 8 cu. ft. trunk. Room for two carry-on suitcases in the trunk and some odds and ends, two small bags, coats and a small ice chest in the back seat and we had lots of fun for weeks on end. 

 

Yeah, to provide longer EV range and get more luggage room will need a serious re-design.

Ford is now saying they will have 200+ mile range EV vehicles and with Li-on batteries getting cheaper maybe it can be done.


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#7 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:40 PM

Sort of.  The engine in my Energi started for the first time in 6 months a couple of days ago.  I can do my short range driving most of the time without the engine except in winter.

Unless Ford does a much better job of packaging the bigger battery, I'll go elsewhere.  That was a big part of the deal-breaker for me and Energi - minuscule luggage space,  Cost was the second piece - and the overall vehicle cost would certainly be a factor

 

For my drive cycle, the Energi would basically mean I wouldn't need gasoline for routine trips.  And that would be really nice - except for needing a fuel stabilizer in case I didn't do longer trips often enough.  Of course, at my current mileage accumulation, I won't be in the market until 2025 ;) .



#8 OFFLINE   machoman1337

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 02:23 PM

If they can't redesign the battery to leave more room in the trunk, a viable alternative would be to introduce a station wagon variant - they already have the Mondeo Estate in Europe so swapping in the powertrain should be trivial. 

 

I got around the FFH trunk issue by borrowing other cars from my family when I really needed the space, but obviously not everyone is that lucky. 


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#9 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:15 AM

If they can't redesign the battery to leave more room in the trunk, a viable alternative would be to introduce a station wagon variant - they already have the Mondeo Estate in Europe so swapping in the powertrain should be trivial. 

 

I got around the FFH trunk issue by borrowing other cars from my family when I really needed the space, but obviously not everyone is that lucky. 

Sounds like a CMAX would have been a better fit.. :)  :shift:  :drop: LOL

 

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#10 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 12:53 PM

Sounds like a CMAX would have been a better fit.. :)  :shift:  :drop: LOL

 

Paul

CMAX suffers from Energi battery packaging even more than the Fusion.  The hump from the battery makes the cargo hold laughable - particularly compared to Prius V.

 

And, unlike the CMAX, the Mondeo Estate is a great looking car ;)


Edited by ElectricFan69, 09 September 2016 - 12:57 PM.

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#11 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 01:46 PM

So your suggestion is to take a hybrid system that sells very poorly and package it with a body style that also sells very poorly?



#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 02:15 PM

CMAX suffers from Energi battery packaging even more than the Fusion.  The hump from the battery makes the cargo hold laughable - particularly compared to Prius V.

 

And, unlike the CMAX, the Mondeo Estate is a great looking car ;)

You need to check your numbers, CMAX Energi has 19cuft vs FFH 12cuft vs FFEnergi 8 cuft and Prius V doesn't have a plugin. :)

 

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#13 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 02:44 PM

You need to check your numbers, CMAX Energi has 19cuft vs FFH 12cuft vs FFEnergi 8 cuft and Prius V doesn't have a plugin. :)

 

Paul

"Figures don't lie, but (marketeers) figure."

 

The CMAX space specs are 'creative'.  When I evaluated luggage, I used my 'standard baggage' to try out my target vehicles (large size cooler bags i use for groceries, approximate size of a overhead compartment max carry-on bag)  The FFH can take the 5 bags + a number of small reusable bags on 'the hump' - while the CMAX was full with 4.  I don't load past the windows/seat top, and there is no shelf with the CMAX to allow multi-level.  Whatever means Ford uses to provide specs, for my usage, the FFH provided more usable capacity for stuff I carry regularly.  The other piece is that the CMAX was decidedly less comfortable for 5 - which I've regular occasion to haul.  I agree that the hatchback design is more versatile - hence my mention of the Mondeo estate that's not available in the US, but is a nice looking and versatile piece.

 

And I realize that Prius V doesn't have a plug-in - my comparison was to regular CMAX.  While the passenger space on the CMAX is decent, the cool in-floor cubbies are nice, and the drivers area is less insane (A center-of-dash 90's green, pixelated digital speedo?  Really, Toyota?) the luggage room on the Prius V is much more usable, with a nice under-floor storage AND a spare.  Now, whether the Toyota moo or the Ford moan were preferable  - I didn't care much for either.

 

The luggage space was a deal-breaker for me with the Energi variants, much to my frustration, as having one could have allowed me to not purchase gasoline except on trips.  The range was sufficient for my daily use.


Edited by ElectricFan69, 09 September 2016 - 02:46 PM.

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#14 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 03:25 PM

"Figures don't lie, but (marketeers) figure."

 

The CMAX space specs are 'creative'.  When I evaluated luggage, I used my 'standard baggage' to try out my target vehicles (large size cooler bags i use for groceries, approximate size of a overhead compartment max carry-on bag)  The FFH can take the 5 bags + a number of small reusable bags on 'the hump' - while the CMAX was full with 4.  I don't load past the windows/seat top, and there is no shelf with the CMAX to allow multi-level.  Whatever means Ford uses to provide specs, for my usage, the FFH provided more usable capacity for stuff I carry regularly.  The other piece is that the CMAX was decidedly less comfortable for 5 - which I've regular occasion to haul.  I agree that the hatchback design is more versatile - hence my mention of the Mondeo estate that's not available in the US, but is a nice looking and versatile piece.

 

And I realize that Prius V doesn't have a plug-in - my comparison was to regular CMAX.  While the passenger space on the CMAX is decent, the cool in-floor cubbies are nice, and the drivers area is less insane (A center-of-dash 90's green, pixelated digital speedo?  Really, Toyota?) the luggage room on the Prius V is much more usable, with a nice under-floor storage AND a spare.  Now, whether the Toyota moo or the Ford moan were preferable  - I didn't care much for either.

 

The luggage space was a deal-breaker for me with the Energi variants, much to my frustration, as having one could have allowed me to not purchase gasoline except on trips.  The range was sufficient for my daily use.

It's all in how you use the space, with the head rests up to keep things coming forward you can use all the trunk space in a CMAX safely and we do.  Without the trunk space and Hatch back the FFH wasn't even an option. I have carried large boxes that went to the ceiling with rear seats down.  I don't believe a Prius V has the ceiling clearance that the box would have fit. ;(

 

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#15 OFFLINE   vangonebuy

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 10:08 AM

I'm hopeful that Ford Fusion continues with a full blown electric version.

 

Maybe an insane mode. :)

Upgrade the battery pack into the engine bay area.

 

Hybrids are wonderful, But sales are controlled by gas prices.

Whether auto makers like it are not.

 

Electric versions seem less gas price dependent.

Much smaller market though.



#16 OFFLINE   talmy

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 02:50 PM

It is said that most drivers could do fine with an electric car most of the time. However the problem is that small percent of the time when a gasoline powered car is really needed. Hence either a second car must be purchased or a plug-in hybrid. But something needs to be done about that trunk space and the Mondeo Estate (as mentioned above by ElectricFan69) in an Energi model would do the trick. Note though that Estate model is the only Mondeo/Fusion that isn't available in any hybrid form for some reason.

 

Just this past week we went on a cruise leaving the Port of Seattle so we drove up from home (outside Portland). Our son and daughter-in-law went as well (also from their home just outside Portland) taking their car, a Tesla. They had to stop half way to "fill up" for free at a Tesla station in Centralia plus a small charge at a commercial electric station near Seattle because of power loss lying idle for the week. So that was a 2+ hour delay in their round trip and a few bucks for electricity in Seattle and when they got home. Our Fusion Hybrid did the whole trip without any fuel stops, consuming 9 gallons of gas ($20). So as much as they rave about their Tesla, I'll pass. IMHO the Fusion is superior for road trips.


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#17 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 06:25 PM

It is said that most drivers could do fine with an electric car most of the time. However the problem is that small percent of the time when a gasoline powered car is really needed. Hence either a second car must be purchased or a plug-in hybrid. But something needs to be done about that trunk space and the Mondeo Estate (as mentioned above by ElectricFan69) in an Energi model would do the trick. Note though that Estate model is the only Mondeo/Fusion that isn't available in any hybrid form for some reason.

 

Just this past week we went on a cruise leaving the Port of Seattle so we drove up from home (outside Portland). Our son and daughter-in-law went as well (also from their home just outside Portland) taking their car, a Tesla. They had to stop half way to "fill up" for free at a Tesla station in Centralia plus a small charge at a commercial electric station near Seattle because of power loss lying idle for the week. So that was a 2+ hour delay in their round trip and a few bucks for electricity in Seattle and when they got home. Our Fusion Hybrid did the whole trip without any fuel stops, consuming 9 gallons of gas ($20). So as much as they rave about their Tesla, I'll pass. IMHO the Fusion is superior for road trips.

Largely a market thing.   Europe is Diesel and manual transmission area - so Ford chose to sell that, as it's a more compelling value prop for the market.  Now that the lies from VW on Diesel emissions have come out, remains to be seen if that stays the case.  The other part is the motorway high-speed fuel consumption ends up favoring the Diesel.  As long as you don't need to meet tight NOx and particulate emissions, Diesels are a good way to minimize CO2 emissions and get excellent FE. 

 

As to the packaging conundrum - until Ford re-engineers the rear floorpan and does a better job of battery integration to the car structure, packaging will continue to be a problem.  Energi variants with better packaging and 60 - 80 mile electric-only operation would be a very compelling package.  Unfortunately, most manufacturers are packaging half-baked driving aids and jacking up the price,  Guess that's easier and has higher margins than providing a vehicle that excels at transporting people and goods.



#18 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 06:49 AM

 Unfortunately, most manufacturers are packaging half-baked driving aids and jacking up the price,  Guess that's easier and has higher margins than providing a vehicle that excels at transporting people and goods.

 

You can only get high margins if people are willing to pay for something.  People will pay for the "half-baked" driving aids, they won't pay for hybrid systems.



#19 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 08:45 AM

In Europe FORD has a GRAND CMAX that would also solve the room problem.  :)  A lot of CMAXers have complained on the the CMAX Hybrid Forum on why FORD hasn't come out with that.  It would have room of Prius V and performance of CMAX. ;(  It sounds like the New 2019 Model E may be available in larger model.

 

Paul


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