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How To Get 80-100 MPG on the HWY in FFH/CMAX Hybrid

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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 02:51 PM

OFFLINE   ptjones

 

I have about reached the limit for AERO and Temperature Efficiency Improvements like Grill Covers and Wheel Covers for my CMAX.  With temps in the 80's*F I can average 50-54mpg at 65-70mph with no A/C on the HWY.   Not bad, but I'm still looking to improve more.  I remembered someone had said the ICE is very inefficient so I looked it up and to my surprise it is only 25-30% at best. WOW drop.gif So looking at GOV site and Wikipedia

 

http://www.fuelecono...v/feg/atv.shtml

https://en.wikipedia...gine_efficiency

From Wikipedia:

"Modern gasoline engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of about 25% to 30% when used to power a car. In other words, even when the engine is operating at its point of maximum thermal efficiency, of the total heat energy released by the gasoline consumed, about 70-75% is rejected as heat without being turned into useful work, i.e. turning the crankshaft.[1] Approximately half of this rejected heat is carried away by the exhaust gases, and half passes through the cylinder walls or cylinder head into the engine cooling system, and is passed to the atmosphere via the cooling system radiator.[2] Some of the work generated is also lost as friction, noise, air turbulence, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and the electricalgenerator, leaving only about 25-30% of the energy released by the fuel consumed available to move the vehicle.

In the past 3–4 years, GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) increased the efficiency of the engines equipped with this fueling system up to 35%. Currently, the technology is available in a wide variety of vehicles ranging from less expensive cars produced by Mazda, Ford and Chevrolet to more expensive cars produced by BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen Auto Group."

 

As you can see about 30% of the energy is absorbed by the cooling system from piston, cylinder walls and cylinder head and another 30% goes out the tale pipe. wink.png

 

headscratch.gif This got me to thinking about using a material that has very low Thermal Conductivity and as it turns out I help to develop STAR21G, a 

sml_gallery_143_17_13214.jpg

black material  with Thermal Conductivity of: 1.25 W/(m K) at 25*C, 160 times lower than Aluminum,34 times lower than Steel. 

Aluminum:                                                        205 W/m K) at 25*C

steel:                                                                  43 W/m K) at 25*C

 

Here are the advantages that I can think of.:

 

1. Potential  MPG improvement of two times.

2. Almost instantaneous operating temp, no energy being absorbed by combustion parts and lower pollution.

3. Eliminate the need for a cooling system there by saving the cost for having one, may need oil cooling.

4. Cut pollution in half  by using half as much gas for each mile.

5. ICE cars will be cheaper to own and operate then All-electric Cars and create similar amount of air pollution assuming  they use coal fired power to charge battery. 

6. Hybrids could improve MPG's more if we can use exhaust gases to run a steam engine generator to charge HVB from using exhaust gases.  

7. Would increase HP and Torque by a factor of two for the same ICE design. 

8. There maybe more advantages and I will add when I or someone else comes up with them.

 

I'm thinking 100 mpg/ 1400mi. on a tank with a CMAX Hybrid on the HWY for 2018. shift.gif  (Maybe 2K miles with Hypermiling) yahoo.gif

 

This isn't a cost effective solution for current CMAX/ICE vehicles, but for Future Hybrid/ICE vehicles this could be a huge improvement in MPG/HP/ Torque and cheaper to make. IMO anyway.  I might try to add this to my ICE now that I'm out of warranty if I get the opportunity. (133K mi) smile.png

 

It would be interesting if I could get someone at FORD interested in my idea otherwise I'm going to put this information out to the Public Outlets and see what happens. I have applied for a patent too.  

 

Let me know what you think. smile.png

 

Paul 

 

I thought I might clarify how a ICE (internal combustion engine) would work using STAR21G, black material.  This is the way our 4 cycle  engine works :Image3.gif

 

Induction Cycle pulls in cool air from intake through cylinder head into combustion chamber cooling cylinder head, cylinder walls, piston and valves.

Compression Cycle the air in the combustion chamber compresses further cooling it until the piston gets close to the top where it gets hot and fuel is injected into combustion chamber. 

Power Cycle fuel is burned and is slightly absorbed into combustion chamber.

Exhaust Cycle hot gases are pushed out of combustion chamber with a little more heat absorbed into surfaces of combustion chamber.

 

As you can see about half of the time the combustion chamber is being heated up and the other half it is cooling down. Because the ICE absorbs very little heat it shouldn't be that hot on the outside of the ICE.  This is also why you will double your MPG's, because 30% of the total energy lost to cooling system won't be lost now.  Or 60% of the energy will be moving the car and 30 % will be going out of the exhaust pipe. smile.png

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 12 June 2016 - 02:57 PM.

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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.








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#2 OFFLINE   talmy

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:11 PM

Reminds me of the work done on ceramic cylinders some time ago. In either case while the 30% lost to the cooling system won't occur, without better conversion of the heat to energy (such as with a Sterling cycle engine) it's just going to go out the exhaust.



#3 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 09:53 PM

Some testing has been done to recapture much of the exhaust heat with different devices and convert it back into electricity charging the HVB.  One experiment comes to mind of diesel trucks improving mileage by 30 percent by recovering the heat energy.


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#4 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 07:17 AM

Better go back to school Paul, an ICE doesn't steal the heat away from the combustion process, it absorbs the heat because it's got nowhere else to go.  It's all about thermodynamics, you can't turn all of the combustion energy directly into pressure without also generating heat.  Once you've generated the heat, the energy is already lost, the only thing you can do is turn that heat back into something useful.  As talmy says, the heat is just going to go out the exhaust instead.

 

Heck, even by your own data aluminum has 4 times the conductivity of steel, and yet the net difference in efficiency between steel and aluminum block engines is pretty much zero.


Edited by Waldo, 13 June 2016 - 07:22 AM.


#5 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 09:47 AM

Better go back to school Paul, an ICE doesn't steal the heat away from the combustion process, it absorbs the heat because it's got nowhere else to go.  It's all about thermodynamics, you can't turn all of the combustion energy directly into pressure without also generating heat.  Once you've generated the heat, the energy is already lost, the only thing you can do is turn that heat back into something useful.  As talmy says, the heat is just going to go out the exhaust instead.

 

Heck, even by your own data aluminum has 4 times the conductivity of steel, and yet the net difference in efficiency between steel and aluminum block engines is pretty much zero.

Did you read the whole Post including the links?  The point of my Post is my material doesn't absorb heat so you could put half as much air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber and end up with the same amount of heat energy/power.  It is possible that the temperature of gases would be higher to create  the same energy/power with less molecules of gas to work with.  Lubrication of cylinder walls maybe a problem with higher temps.  All these issues have to be researched to come up with viable solutions. 

I do know Corning worked on this idea in the early 90's and stopped for unknown reason. :)

I couldn't find any real info on Aluminum vs iron efficiency differences other than Diesel Trucks use iron and my new 2.7Liter V6 F150 has Cast Iron Block for better MPG's. :)

 

Paul


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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#6 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 11:21 AM

Did you read the whole Post including the links?  The point of my Post is my material doesn't absorb heat so you could put half as much air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber and end up with the same amount of heat energy/power. 

 

Uhh, no, that's not how it works.  When you burn fuel you create a chemical reaction.  That chemical reaction produces heat, it doesn't produce "power".  The rapid heating causes expansion of the gases, which creates pressure, which is what moves the piston.  If you put half as much air/fuel in, you get half as much heat and you get half as much pressure (probably not linear, but generally so).  In other words the heat is what makes the power, it's not a byproduct.   Once the piston is at the bottom of the stroke, you've got the same amount of heat left inside the cylinder and that has to go somewhere, whether it's absorbed into the engine or pushed out the exhaust.  With your material it would all be going out the exhaust, which would make exhaust temps so high that the catalytic converters wouldn't work anymore, so you'd have to find a new solution for that unless you want to actually produce more pollution, not less.
 



#7 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 12:30 PM

Maybe with the high temps you wouldn't need a catalytic converter and then use exhaust heat to run a steam engine/DC generator or some other kind of DC generator to charge HVB. :)

 

Paul


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#8 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 03:09 PM

Here is a YouTube video on how our Hybrid ICE works:  :) 

 

Paul

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#9 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 03:48 PM

What you're referring to is called an 'Adiabatic process', and has been the 'Holy Grail' of heat engines.  Much like that mythical object, the adiabatic engine has been fruitless search.

 

In any internal combustion engine, the pressure rise and temperature rise are closely related - and in an Otto cycle engine so is 'pre-ignition'.  Materials science aside, you navigate a fine line between efficiency, pollutant production (NOx, in particular), and cost/durability.  If you get combustion chamber temps too high, NOx production will end up being a BIG problem.  This is part of the issue that drove VW down the cheating trail - they had high combustion temps, which were great for FE, but terrible for NOx pollution.  An engine that creates poisons is not a socially acceptable solution.  High NOx levels are damaging to lungs, and a significant breathing irritant at moderate levels.



#10 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 04:55 PM

I'm not sure if comparing a Diesel engine to a Atkinson Hybrid engine works if you watch the video.  In VW case they were gaining 5-10% FE, in my case getting 30+%/ 60+ MPG even if NO2 go up mpg's will compensate for it. :)

 

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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#11 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 06:11 PM

I'm not sure if comparing a Diesel engine to a Atkinson Hybrid engine works if you watch the video.  In VW case they were gaining 5-10% FE, in my case getting 30+%/ 60+ MPG even if NO2 go up mpg's will compensate for it. :)

 

Paul

In a word - No.  Reduced fuel consumption won't make a difference if the total NOx emissions exceed allowable limits.  There is a statutory limit for light-duty vehicles at well under a gram/mile.  See the EPA document for the limits by vehicle tier.  Maximum allowances vary by the emissions tier the manufacturer is trying to hit - which will determine the places where they can sell the vehicle.  Some areas of the country have particular sensitivity to NOx emissions and suffer more from both air quality as well as watershed acid increase ("acid rain" resulting in NOx further oxidizing into nitric acid. 

 

A second set of issues with adiabatic combustion chambers is lubrication.  Conventional ICE engines with 'normal' materials have strict limits on surface temperatures in any lubricated areas driven by lubricant tolerance of temperatures.  This also has / creates issue of managing cylinder sealing and gas blow-by.  If you get too high temps on any surface swept by piston rings, you will lose lubrication - with resulting engine  wear and eventual failure.  You also increase oil deterioration, which changes/reduces OCI. 

 

As to distinction between Diesel and Atkinson/Otto cycle engines - for this purpose, there isn't one.  The different cycles have somewhat different emissions profiles related to how the combustion process happens and how fuel is mixed in the combustion chamber, as well as the chemical characteristics of the fuel.  Diesel typically has remarkable issues with particulates and, due to peak combustion temps and its typically lean air/fuel ratios, a significant problem with NOx. Atkinson and Otto cycle can also have issues with NOx - but the other combustion by-products typically allow reduction/oxidation catalysts that are fairly well-understood.

 

Piece of trivia:  30+ years back a brilliant mechanic / race car engine designer Henry "Smokey" Yunick built working prototypes of 'hot vapor' phase 1 adiabatic engines that did much of what you're describing.  There were also problems that nobody has been able to figure out effective solutions to that have prevented commercialization of the engine design.  Google "smokey yunick hot vapor engine" and enjoy...


Edited by ElectricFan69, 14 June 2016 - 06:12 PM.


#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 08:55 AM

The only similarity I see with "Hot Vapor Engine" is higher temperatures, but not as high as 2600*F.  The my material could be used for the cylinder head which doesn't have a lubrication problems.  I also think the piston could be used, because it wouldn't be transferring heat to the cylinder walls.  If the exhaust gases are to hot for Catalytic Converter, you could run steam engine/ generator lines before CC to remove some of the heat and make steam for steam engine/ generator to charge HVB. :) 

 

Paul 


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#13 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 11:17 AM

Where's all the water going to come from to make the steam?



#14 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 06:47 PM

Where's all the water going to come from to make the steam?

That would have to be self contained, Haven't done much R&D on creating DC Volts from heat, BMW has been doing alot of R&D on it. :)

 

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Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68 mpg  13.5 gal.


#15 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 05:53 AM

Where's all the water going to come from to make the steam?

The working fluid - whether it's water or anything else suitable for the temps desired (you would want the working temperature/ pressure ranges to involve phase change for sake of efficiency - a great way of moving high amounts of energy).  A Stirling cycle engine of some sorts could easily be used for 'thermal compounding'.  Magazines like "Popular Science" have had 'breakthrough' articles on this technology for better part of 70 years.  The deal-breaker issues here are cost, weight, and packaging, plus safety - a high-pressure system that's compromised (e.g. in a wreck) can 'blow up REAL good'.  You could easily make this a closed system - using a fixed amount of working fluid cycling between the heat source (ICE exhaust), the heat engine, and a condenser.

 

Fuel prices would have to rise by an order of magnitude for that to be a cost-effective add-on.  The other factor of this sort of add-on is that it's only effective in steady, relatively high-load power demands - making it ineffective for most folks.  Long-haul trucks are a feasible application, but again, cost and weight make it a hard sell in days of cheap fuel.      


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#16 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 06:15 AM

The only similarity I see with "Hot Vapor Engine" is higher temperatures, but not as high as 2600*F.  The my material could be used for the cylinder head which doesn't have a lubrication problems.  I also think the piston could be used, because it wouldn't be transferring heat to the cylinder walls.  If the exhaust gases are to hot for Catalytic Converter, you could run steam engine/ generator lines before CC to remove some of the heat and make steam for steam engine/ generator to charge HVB. :)

 

Paul 

 

 

Any engine with combustion chamber temps that high will create impossible-to-deal-with amounts of NOx emissions.  Thermal NOx is inevitable when temps exceed 2000F and there is any free oxygen.  Catalytic elimination of NOx can be done, but has its own costs and problems.  Keeping combustion chamber temps below the NOx zone has been a critical goal ever since we recognized it as a toxin. 

 

Reading 'between the lines' in some of the articles on Smokey's brainchild, excessive or hard-to-manage emissions, as well as problematic 'pre-ignition' and resulting mechanical abuse were the issues that he couldn't really overcome.


Edited by ElectricFan69, 16 June 2016 - 06:16 AM.


#17 OFFLINE   Automate

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 08:05 AM

A Stirling cycle engine of some sorts could easily be used for 'thermal compounding'.  Magazines like "Popular Science" have had 'breakthrough' articles on this technology for better part of 70 years

 

Just came across a story today claiming a Stirling cycle engine that gets 58 mpg in an F-150 and 100 miles per gallon in a smaller SUV!  It also uses hybrid technology, but rather than supplementing the ICE the Stirling replaces the ICE.  The Stirling engine is designed to have physical dimensions similar to a 4 cylinder ICE.

http://www.khou.com/...0-mpg/242673922

 

http://www.foxnews.c...gy/?intcmp=hpff


Edited by Automate, 16 June 2016 - 08:23 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 05:58 PM

I was wondering if you enrich the fuel mixture, would that use up any extra oxygen so Nitrogen Oxides wouldn't be able to formed? :) 

 

Paul    


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#19 OFFLINE   ElectricFan69

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:50 AM

I was wondering if you enrich the fuel mixture, would that use up any extra oxygen so Nitrogen Oxides wouldn't be able to formed? :)

 

Paul    

That has been a strategy for managing Diesel emissions, where particulates and NOx are 'trapped' and periodically 'burned off' by enriching the mix.  Consequence is increased fuel consumption. 







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