FFH - Engine Light ON

[greatk]

Hello All,

This is my first post so pardon me if i miss anything..

this forum has been very helpful to understand the details about my FF Hybrid 2014 Titanium.

 

Issue - The engine light of my FFH 2014 has been ON since September 2015

Reason per the Vehicle Health Report - On Board Diagnostics has detected an engine misfire. Drive in a moderate fashion and contact an authorized dealer as soon as possible.

 

Description -

This all started back in September last year when my engine light came back ON, i took my car to the dealership and they kept it for couple of days then they called me that the car is ready and as soon as i turned the car on the light came back on again.

Dealership took it back and kept it for that whole week and they said they dont know what is causing the misfire..

They kept the car and drove it for couple of days for "testing purposes" and told me they still dont know the issue so gave it back to me and i drove it for another 2-3 weeks.

Probable cause according to me- sometimes it goes OFF but as soon as i use the remote start the light comes back ON.

the dealership is saying remote start is not related to the light turning ON.

it just the computer system which kicks in the light to turn ON.

Dealership is still saying that they want to keep the car for a week or so but since i dont have a second car to travel for work i can't afford it.

shouldn't the dealership provide free rental car since they can't figure out the problem?

Any help is really appreciated as i dont know if changing the dealership will matter.

thanks in advance

MyCar Info:

Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium 2014

Mileage - 50k

Location - New York

[md13ffhguy]

Are you still under warranty? My dealer just gave me a rental for my 2014 with the check engine light on. They mentioned that Ford paid for it, so it seems you should ask them for the same.

[md13ffhguy]

Oh, never mind. I see you're well over the bumper to bumper mileage limit... I think the only way would be if you had an extended warranty.

[mwr]

What was the mileage on the car when you took it in to the dealer for this problem in September 2015. If under the warranty limit then, I'd argue that the original problem had never been fixed and therefore it still should be fixed under warranty.

[lolder]

This should probably be covered by the 5 year/ 60,000 mile powertrain warranty or maybe the 8/80,000 emissions warranties. A misfire is either ignition, fuel or compression all of which are easy to diagnose. Does the car run rough? If it is really a miss, it should. The systems even detect a weak cylinder that is not completely misfiring. All of this information is stored in the computer and should be easy to find. Ignition and fuel injector problems are easy to fix. If it's low compression that's a big problem. Demand that Ford fix this under warranty.

[greatk]

This should probably be covered by the 5 year/ 60,000 mile powertrain warranty or maybe the 8/80,000 emissions warranties. A misfire is either ignition, fuel or compression all of which are easy to diagnose. Does the car run rough? If it is really a miss, it should. The systems even detect a weak cylinder that is not completely misfiring. All of this information is stored in the computer and should be easy to find. Ignition and fuel injector problems are easy to fix. If it's low compression that's a big problem. Demand that Ford fix this under warranty.

Hi Lolder,

thanks for your feedback.

i was hoping the same given everything is automated the diagnose test should be able to identify the issue/code.however, apparently, dealership, ford expert service etc. are unable to nail the issue down, they are still trying to figure out via hit/try method on what could be the issue.

I do have my case open since September with the Regional Rep (NY region) and speaking to her didn't really help as she deferred me to the dealership that they will fix the issue and when i told her this has been happening for long time and ford itself dont know how to fix their cars then where will the customer go to...

This obviously doesnt come under lemon law as well.

 

My Car is running smoothly (touch wood) so i am able to drive it to work and there is no sign of any issue with the car itself, all functions/features are perfectly working fine.

[greatk]

What was the mileage on the car when you took it in to the dealer for this problem in September 2015. If under the warranty limit then, I'd argue that the original problem had never been fixed and therefore it still should be fixed under warranty.

it was over 30k so wasn't covered under basic warranty.

i am now hoping this issue will be covered under 5yr/60k or 8/80k mile warranty.

[hybridbear]

This obviously doesnt come under lemon law as well.

Why wouldn't it fit under Lemon Law?

[greatk]

Why wouldn't it fit under Lemon Law?

the regional rep told me because the car has mileage of more than 18k..

[greatk]

Hello All,

sorry for the gap, i was caught up with life..

i managed to take my car to different service center last weekend and they just called me.

 

the service advisor said the following,

 

engine light ON gave codes to change some coils but changing just the coils is not recommended so he said will have to change the plugs as well.

also, he suggested to reset the powertrain module as well.

 

Not sure if all of this is hit-try (guess work) or definite solution to fix my issue.

 

moreover, i ran over 60k miles, i called ford saying i had this issue since september and the initial service center was unable to fix it so i should be covered by the warranty. but Ford is giving me BS so i am kinda screwed.

 

total bill service advisor given me is $698.

 

what do you guys recommend, is it worth it spending that much for some coild, plugs change and power train reset or should i go to my local guy?

 

thanks for your help

[lolder]

Coils and plugs shouldn't need changing at 60,000 miles. I'd replace only the coil that's bad. You don't have to change the plug if it is not the cause. Changing the coil is a 15 minute job. Is there a TSB for the power train reset? If so have them do it for free. I wouldn't fell bad about just taking it to a local guy for the coil and maybe plug but the Ford dealer's probably already got you for a big diagnostic bill. Plugs are good for well over 100,000 miles and coils really shouldn't fail at all. Was the engine running rough? There is no reason to change anything that isn't broken now. There are no "matched" parts.

I went back and read the history of this issue. You took it to them before the power train warranty expired and they didn't fix it. Demand that they fix it under warranty. Read your owners Guide about how to proceed up the complaint chain.

Edited June 21, 2016 by lolder

[ElectricFan69]

Hello All,

sorry for the gap, i was caught up with life..

i managed to take my car to different service center last weekend and they just called me.

 

the service advisor said the following,

 

engine light ON gave codes to change some coils but changing just the coils is not recommended so he said will have to change the plugs as well.

also, he suggested to reset the powertrain module as well.

 

Not sure if all of this is hit-try (guess work) or definite solution to fix my issue.

 

moreover, i ran over 60k miles, i called ford saying i had this issue since september and the initial service center was unable to fix it so i should be covered by the warranty. but Ford is giving me BS so i am kinda screwed.

 

total bill service advisor given me is $698.

 

what do you guys recommend, is it worth it spending that much for some coild, plugs change and power train reset or should i go to my local guy?

 

thanks for your help

I smell the distinctive odor of the dealer spreading male bovine excrement.

 

Recurring misfire can be caused by many things - including bad coils and plugs. But it can also be caused by things like bad injectors, wiring faults, ECU issues, vacuum leaks (including manifold/throttle body cracks), and mechanical faults like leaking valves. A tech with good diagnostic skills is a must - and many just throw 'most likely suspect' parts at the problem in hopes of it going away.

 

I'd also recommend escalation/review of warranty denial, particularly if you have documentation of the problem showing up during warranty period and not getting properly resolved.

[greatk]

Guys,

many thanks for your feedback and input.

 

I think going through the dealerships is time and money waste, i already spent enough time and approx $400 on all this diagnosis crap, this seems to be a big scam.

 

I have decided to go with my local mechanic who has seen the car and will replace the coils and also will do the serivce. (i know this guy personally).

 

i am also going to replace the air filters etc. which the first dealership suggested with $250 price tag (i know they had the audacity to suggest this even though they were unable to figure the issue with the engine light on..)

 

also, since i am here, is there any standard service checklist for fusion hybrid which lists out what needs to be serviced/replaced at what point/miles?

 

Thanks again for your help and sharing my pain.

 

Regards,

G

[lolder]

The Owners Guide should have a maintenance schedule section.

[md13ffhguy]

Beyond oil changes, tire rotations, and air and cabin filters, the amount of maintenance this car needs wouldn't keep the Maytag repairman busy...

[greatk]

Hi Guys,

I am back again, so my local mechanic replaced two ignition coils to fix the engine light issue as indicated per dealership diagnose

also replaced one air filter and one cabin filter (since we were at it).

 

mechanic told me that after replacements, cylinder 3 is still misfiring so would expect the light to come on anytime.

The engine light was off for 4-5 days even after using remote start (which was bringing it back on in the past).

 

Eventually, on Monday evening the light came back on as expected, so will be taking it back to the guy. this time we believe it could be the fuel injector or bad engine compression.

 

will be picking up the fuel injector from ford parts and keep my fingers crossed.

 

will keep you guys posted, any suggestions are obviously welcome.

 

Thanks,

G

[machoman1337]

When I bought my FFH (pre-owned), the engine light was on and wouldn't go away for quite a while. Eventually the dealer figured out that there was a loose fuel valve that was leaking vapours and that solved the problem.

[paris wells]

i have a 2014 ford fusion that the check engine light starts blinking whenthe car come on and then starts putting when you hit the gas

[MeeLee]

If it's one cylinder, I'd check the spark plug, and while at it, use a scope to check the piston internally for damage or carbon buildup.

Coils don't go bad so fast. Sounds like your issue with new coils wasn't really resolved. 

More than likely it's a  leaky valve. Could be because of a piece of metal or shrapnel from the spark plug getting jammed and damaging the valve seating.

Check to see if the engine does funny under heavy load. Also check if your mpg numbers are what they should be.

I'm getting 45.5mpg average on my 2019 ffh (which has a few Wh more battery capacity than older models).