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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Register your Fusion Hybrid at the official Ford authorized registry here.


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Rotors grooved


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29 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   lolder

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:29 PM

The rotors on my 72 K miles 2010 are absolutely smooth to the fingernail touch. In SW FL we have no road de-icing with salt or other mixtures and little road debris or mud which might get thrown onto the rotor surfaces. Periodic torrential downpours in the rainy season June to November keeps the roads cleaner than other areas. The warm weather is also ideal for hybrids.









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#22 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:57 PM

Rear. Keep in mind rear brakes do more of the stopping than fronts under normal braking, so there will be slightly more wear on the rotors.

 

Did you mean to say front brakes?  The front brakes generally perform about 65-70% of the braking while the rears provide the rest which isn’t much. This is the major reason why many cars were commonly built with disc brakes on the front and drums on the rear. The physics involved mostly explains why the front brakes do most of the braking - the car pitches forward with more downward force exerted on the front tires and a corresponding upward force on the rear tires.

 

Here are a couple of link that touch on this: 

 

http://auto.howstuff...-conversion.htm

 

http://www.tirerack....e.jsp?techid=78


Edited by Texasota, 28 April 2015 - 08:57 PM.


#23 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:25 PM

FYI...  The FFH Friction Brake ABS system works this way, rear brakes first.  This prevents that 'forward pitch' you mention.

--

 

Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)

On initial application of the brake pedal, full pressure is applied to the rear brakes. The ABS module then uses wheel speed sensor inputs to evaluate rear wheel slip. Once the rear wheel slip exceeds a predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU (Hydraulic Control Unit) to close the appropriate isolation valves to hold the rear brake pressure constant while allowing the front brake pressure to build. This creates a balanced braking condition between the front and rear wheels. If the rear wheel slip continues and exceeds a second predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to open the dump valves to decrease the rear brake pressure and allow the rear wheels to recover. A slight bump sensation may be felt in the brake pedal when EBD is active.

If the ABS is disabled due to a DTC being present in the ABS module, EBD continues to function unless the DTC is for wheel speed sensors or the HCU. When EBD is disabled, the ABS warning indicator, the red brake warning indicator and stability/traction control indicator (sliding car icon) illuminate.


Edited by GrySql, 28 April 2015 - 09:29 PM.

  • acdii, hybridbear and Hybrider like this
The Time Machine....
'13 FFH SE - Platinum White
Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#24 OFFLINE   Texasota

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:35 PM

FYI...  The FFH Friction Brake ABS system works this way, rear brakes first.

--

 

Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)

On initial application of the brake pedal, full pressure is applied to the rear brakes. The ABS module then uses wheel speed sensor inputs to evaluate rear wheel slip. Once the rear wheel slip exceeds a predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to close the appropriate isolation valves to hold the rear brake pressure constant while allowing the front brake pressure to build. This creates a balanced braking condition between the front and rear wheels. If the rear wheel slip continues and exceeds a second predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to open the dump valves to decrease the rear brake pressure and allow the rear wheels to recover. A slight bump sensation may be felt in the brake pedal when EBD is active.

If the ABS is disabled due to a DTC being present in the ABS module, EBD continues to function unless the DTC is for wheel speed sensors or the HCU. When EBD is disabled, the ABS warning indicator, the red brake warning indicator and stability/traction control indicator (sliding car icon) illuminate.

Thanks for the posts, GrySql.  I'm wondering if this is peculiar only to a hybrid because of the front wheel regenerative braking? Once you exceed some moderate threshold of braking the front friction brakes are going to provide the majority of the braking/stopping power.

 

Edit: Thinking about that a little more I wondering if the above makes sense?

 

On initial application of the brake pedal, full pressure is applied to the rear brakes.

 

That is not what happens with our FFH, is it?  On initial brake pedal application (assuming light application) you get regenerative braking from the front. It would surprise me if rear brake application is really the first thing that happens. If we are always getting rear brake application in conjunction with the front regenerative braking, then it would seem like it would partially defeat the purpose of regenerative braking.


Edited by Texasota, 28 April 2015 - 10:07 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:06 PM

It is extremely difficult to answer every facet of this cars engineering, the Service Manuals do not explain each action fully.  What I find I post verbatim and I look very hard before I do, I like to pass on correct info.  To me, after looking at the available material it appears that the PCM uses the eCVT and ABS (and Stability Control) systems to interact and provide the vehicles braking, how this is performed is not like a normal non-hybrid vehicle with only one braking system.
The majority of the braking is regenerative, the rest is the friction brakes.  My quote from the Service Manual refers to when the Friction Brakes need to be engaged, in other words stopping harder than the eCVT can handle.  My take on this that is once the ABS system recognizes the need for friction brakes it happens as I posted above, rears first.
If anyone could jump in here and provide more facts, I'd appreciate it.  Waldo?
 
The regenerative braking system utilizes the electric motor to recharge the High Voltage Traction Battery (HVTB) and create brake torque that is used in place of, or in combination with, the conventional friction brakes to slow the vehicle.
 
==
 
BTW, the Brake Inspection Section says this about Brake Disc's (Rotors):
 
If the diagnosis has revealed vibration in the steering wheel, seat or pedal while braking that varies with vehicle speed, machine the brake disc. Heavily scored brake discs, similar to that caused by pads worn down to the backing plate, should also be machined. In order to machine, discs must be above the minimum thickness specification.
 
If the car stops straight and true, without any of those NVH (noise, vibration & harshness) symptoms, and if the pedal is not spongy or low - things are normal.

Edited by GrySql, 29 April 2015 - 12:34 AM.

The Time Machine....
'13 FFH SE - Platinum White
Custom ordered, build date: 11/30/12, delivered: 12/12/12 - Sold: 09/05/15
 

#26 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 08:08 AM

BTW, the Brake Inspection Section says this about Brake Disc's (Rotors):
 
If the diagnosis has revealed vibration in the steering wheel, seat or pedal while braking that varies with vehicle speed, machine the brake disc. Heavily scored brake discs, similar to that caused by pads worn down to the backing plate, should also be machined. In order to machine, discs must be above the minimum thickness specification.
 
If the car stops straight and true, without any of those NVH (noise, vibration & harshness) symptoms, and if the pedal is not spongy or low - things are normal.

With a 99% Lifetime Brake score we wouldn't notice if the pedal was spongy or if there was vibration when braking since we're only using the brake pads below 7 MPH or so...


Current Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm

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Previous Vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

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#27 OFFLINE   jsolan

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:10 AM

I just had my state inspection done at the dealer and the technician recommended to have my rotors turned because of rust and pitting. By the time they told me this, the vehicle was off the rack so I didn't see for myself, but I'll check it out this weekend. I have 36k on it and a 97% brake score. I can understand a bit of rust, but pitting concerns me.
Are there may be bad sets of rotors on some of these 13's?

#28 OFFLINE   FordServiceCA

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:14 AM

Thanks for the info! I'll take some pics tomorrow so we can compare.

 

Hey FernMTL, 

 

What's the current odometer reading on your Fusion Hybrid? I'll check out all available options to assist on my end.

 

Mariel



#29 OFFLINE   FernMTL

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 10:29 AM



 

Hey FernMTL, 

 

What's the current odometer reading on your Fusion Hybrid? I'll check out all available options to assist on my end.

 

Mariel

Hi Mariel,

 

The cars as 29 500 km. Disc were turned at 8 or 9000 km and recheck around 19 000km. Thank you!!

 

Here's two picture of my dics:

photo%202.jpg

 

photo%201.jpg



#30 OFFLINE   hytibill

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 11:37 AM

I had my rear rotors replaced at 21,000 on a 2013 Ford Fusion Titanium Hybrid. They were grooved to the touch, even though the pads were only half worn. I had them replaced by my mechanic. Also had to have my auxiliary battery replaced. 






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