Awful noise coming from the engine

[markd85]

I've commented on other threads that my car makes a seriously terrible noise when slowing down and stopping. sounds like knives sharpening. I recorded a different, but maybe related, sound when i turned my car on the other day. I recorded the sound.

 

https://youtu.be/qf2EoiTQ1jc

 

The skip in the sound towards the end is when i put the car in drive from park and began to drive away. The sound did not go away but the wind caused a lot of static in the recording so i cut it off.

 

Any ideas? I've been reading a lot about the transmission issues and the TSB 14-0214 and 04-0176

 

Any thoughts?

[lolder]

The only recourse is to take it o the Ford dealer.

[Lance Stewart 59]

Markd85/Others,

These is the same noise my 2013 Fusion Hybrid is making. It doesn't vary when to shift but it whirs with engine speed. Started as a low volume noise and has gotten a lot louder. I learned from a car shop this one doesn't have a serpentine belt or idler pulley. The dealership write up technician guessed it might be the pulley. Nope.

 

Have you found what the problem was? I get a large discount from this one shop cause may wife works in the office. So trying to avoid dealership - $117 to diagnose at dealership. I do have a add on warranty but with a hundred deductible - any clues would be great.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Lance Stewart 59

[ptjones]

I've commented on other threads that my car makes a seriously terrible noise when slowing down and stopping. sounds like knives sharpening. I recorded a different, but maybe related, sound when i turned my car on the other day. I recorded the sound.

 

https://youtu.be/qf2EoiTQ1jc

 

The skip in the sound towards the end is when i put the car in drive from park and began to drive away. The sound did not go away but the wind caused a lot of static in the recording so i cut it off.

 

Any ideas? I've been reading a lot about the transmission issues and the TSB 14-0214 and 04-0176

 

Any thoughts?

Does it go away when in EV?

 

Paul

[markd85]

Markd85/Others,

These is the same noise my 2013 Fusion Hybrid is making. It doesn't vary when to shift but it whirs with engine speed. Started as a low volume noise and has gotten a lot louder. I learned from a car shop this one doesn't have a serpentine belt or idler pulley. The dealership write up technician guessed it might be the pulley. Nope.

 

Have you found what the problem was? I get a large discount from this one shop cause may wife works in the office. So trying to avoid dealership - $117 to diagnose at dealership. I do have a add on warranty but with a hundred deductible - any clues would be great.

 

I have a dealership appointment tomorrow. I have the extended warranty PremiumCare so i would hope anything transmission/powertrain/engine related would be covered and i only have a $50 deductible. I'm at about 81k miles. I made the appointment with the shop foreman to do a road test with me in the car so i should know in the morning what the verdict is.

 

Does it go away when in EV?

 

Paul

 

 

The sound does go away in EV mode, but it makes a relatively arresting sound when the ICE goes off. Once in EV mode, the rubbing noise and high pitched whine i experience (that ive described as knives sharpening) continue and get much worse when braking slowly down hills or when coming to a slow stop, which in my opinion is one of the hallmarks of having a hybrid because we are encouraged to improve our brake score. Essentially the whine noise it makes has resulted in me changing my driving behavior to avoid the noise as some have indicated to me that it sounds like a police siren. I once slowed down to pick a friend up on the side of the road in front of their house and they asked me if i saw any police. i had to explain it was my car.

Edited June 22, 2017 by markd85

[ptjones]

It will be interesting to see what they say. :) I think you have different problem with the trans than I had.

 

Paul

[lolder]

The entire transmission including the two motor/generators is covered by the hybrid 8/100,000 yr/m warranty. The 2013's have had a rash of transmission failures due to perhaps a faulty bearing. This should be covered by the warranty.

[mwr]

 

Essentially the whine noise it makes has resulted in me changing my driving behavior to avoid the noise as some have indicated to me that it sounds like a police siren. I once slowed down to pick a friend up on the side of the road in front of their house and they asked me if i saw any police. i had to explain it was my car.

That sounds like an extreme version of the normal EV sound. Once a passenger in my 2015 FFH noted that the sound was like a siren.

[md13ffhguy]

That sounds like an extreme version of the normal EV sound. Once a passenger in my 2015 FFH noted that the sound was like a siren.

That doesn't sound normal to me.

[markd85]

Well I went on a road test and the shop foreman said the noises appear "normal" and sound like the EV motor regenerating the battery. i played the recording in my OP for him and he said "while it does sound strange, there could be a lot of factors as to why it sounds like that."

 

He also mentioned as i handed him the keys that it felt like i needed new rear shocks. Of course they'll be looking to do that work and not work on my real issues.

[ptjones]

Well I went on a road test and the shop foreman said the noises appear "normal" and sound like the EV motor regenerating the battery. i played the recording in my OP for him and he said "while it does sound strange, there could be a lot of factors as to why it sounds like that."

 

He also mentioned as i handed him the keys that it felt like i needed new rear shocks. Of course they'll be looking to do that work and not work on my real issues.

I would go to another dealer that has worked a lot of transmissions. Could have driven another Hybrid to hear the difference. ;( IMO

 

Paul

[mwr]

That doesn't sound normal to me.

I'm sure it is normal. The problem is that the word "siren" evokes thoughts of high volume. I barely notice the sound, it's so low volume. But a new-to-FFH passenger with (probably) sensitive hearing noted a "siren" sound.

[markd85]

I'm trusting that if they take it out for another ride or follow the guidance in the service manual reference i gave him they will hear the noise enough to follow the steps. If he says its normal operation i will absolutely request a ride in a new car. He prepared himself for that though, telling me that "over time the hybrid battery loses capacity and charge efficiency which could be contributing to my lower gas mileage".

 

What sucks is that the dealer i bought the car from couldnt hear the noises either, so i brought the car to this dealer #2 and he originally heard noises and replaced the wheel bearings, which they claimed to have fixed the noise. and they "bought me" from the other dealer with two free oil changes. today i cashed in my last free oil change so if they dont fix it, i likely wont be returning.

[lolder]

The amount the HVB losses over time is very small and does not cause lowering of mpg in any case. Early Prii were tested by the US government and had lost 60% of their energy capacity. The mpg were unaffected. You have a failing transmission. Escalate this with Ford as per the Owners Guide.

[ptjones]

I'm trusting that if they take it out for another ride or follow the guidance in the service manual reference i gave him they will hear the noise enough to follow the steps. If he says its normal operation i will absolutely request a ride in a new car. He prepared himself for that though, telling me that "over time the hybrid battery loses capacity and charge efficiency which could be contributing to my lower gas mileage".

 

What sucks is that the dealer i bought the car from couldnt hear the noises either, so i brought the car to this dealer #2 and he originally heard noises and replaced the wheel bearings, which they claimed to have fixed the noise. and they "bought me" from the other dealer with two free oil changes. today i cashed in my last free oil change so if they dont fix it, i likely wont be returning.

From my experience at 158k mi. I'm getting the best MPG's ever, but my HVB capacity has gone down. :)

 

Paul

[lolder]

The US Government tests on a 2010 FFH showed it lost 8% after 160k miles. You can't see that on any displays. You have a C-max on which you can probably see the EV mileage reduction.

[markd85]

Hi all, thanks for all your input and replies. So I received a call from the dealer and they said it sounded like it was low on transmission fluid so their response was to flush and replace the fluid and it would be ready to pick up at 5pm. So when I arrived at 5, the tech appeared exhausted. They said I had about 10% of fluid left but there was no apparent leak, so it must be leaking internally. I'm very happy it sounds like they're doing the right thing and set me up with a follow up appointment and loaner to be covered under my PremiumCare ESP and said to expect worst case scenario is that I get a whole new transmission kit. I said that sounds like best case scenario to me, just go ahead and do it if it will be covered. So, the saga continues for another few weeks but I'm happy to report that they didn't just send me home this time.

[lolder]

It can't leak internally and the fluid is used only to lubricate gears. It never needs changing and there is no torque converter. Flushing is not needed. The 2013 transmissions had manufacturing defects rumored to be a bad bearing design or vendor. They all should have been recalled. Ford decided to wait them out on the warranty. No more Fords for me. The 2010-12 FFH transmissions were made by Aisin, the "Borg-Warner" of Japan minority owned by Toyota. They were bullet proof. Ford brought the manufacture of the 2013+ transmissions in house and loused it up. Any 2013 that hasn't had the transmission replaced is a ticking bomb.

[ptjones]

Hi all, thanks for all your input and replies. So I received a call from the dealer and they said it sounded like it was low on transmission fluid so their response was to flush and replace the fluid and it would be ready to pick up at 5pm. So when I arrived at 5, the tech appeared exhausted. They said I had about 10% of fluid left but there was no apparent leak, so it must be leaking internally. I'm very happy it sounds like they're doing the right thing and set me up with a follow up appointment and loaner to be covered under my PremiumCare ESP and said to expect worst case scenario is that I get a whole new transmission kit. I said that sounds like best case scenario to me, just go ahead and do it if it will be covered. So, the saga continues for another few weeks but I'm happy to report that they didn't just send me home this time.

I also find this strange, the trans has it's own fluid cooling system and either it is leaking or it never had enough fluid in it. I don't believe that all 2013 Hybrid/Energi's are going to fail, I believe the problem is most likely with heat treatment of the bearings. It would appear that only a small percentage were defective and most are replaced by now. :)

 

Paul

Edited June 26, 2017 by ptjones

[lolder]

Don't confuse the transmission coolant with the transmission lubricant. There's the motor/electronics coolant ( MEC ) system and there's the transmission lubricant cooling system. In the plug-ins, there's an electric pump for the lubricant cooling system in addition to the ICE driven one. The hybrids don't have that and when they upped the max EV speed of the hybrids from 60 to 86 with software updates, it was surmised that there was lubricant overheat that contributed to the rash of failures. Nobody but Ford knows for sure. If there was a bearing manufacturing problem from a vendor, the vehicles affected should be known and may be in the thousands. We are continuing to see on this forum too many failures of these first Ford built transmissions as they age. Since they don't fail catastrophically and cause a safety issue no recall has been issued and Ford is just waiting out the 8/100,000 hybrid warranty. Sad ! !

I was a big advocate for these Ford hybrids since I got mine in July 09 but Ford's response to these 2013 transmission failures is ( put in your own word ).

Edited June 25, 2017 by lolder

[Texasota]

It can't leak internally and the fluid is used only to lubricate gears. It never needs changing and there is no torque converter.

 

The owner's manual (Scheduled Maintenance section) for my 2015 FFH states that the transmission fluid (not coolant) should be changed every 150,000 miles. The same is true for the FFE. Granted that is a long service interval but it clearly calls for changing the transmission fluid.

[lolder]

My 2010 manual doesn't mention it.

[ptjones]

Don't confuse the transmission coolant with the transmission lubricant. There's the motor/electronics coolant ( MEC ) system and there's the transmission lubricant cooling system. In the plug-ins, there's an electric pump for the lubricant cooling system in addition to the ICE driven one. The hybrids don't have that and when they upped the max EV speed of the hybrids from 60 to 86 with software updates, it was surmised that there was lubricant overheat that contributed to the rash of failures. Nobody but Ford knows for sure. If there was a bearing manufacturing problem from a vendor, the vehicles affected should be known and may be in the thousands. We are continuing to see on this forum too many failures of these first Ford built transmissions as they age. Since they don't fail catastrophically and cause a safety issue no recall has been issued and Ford is just waiting out the 8/100,000 hybrid warranty. Sad ! !

I was a big advocate for these Ford hybrids since I got mine in July 09 but Ford's response to these 2013 transmission failures is ( put in your own word ).

I didn't use the word "coolant" for the the trans fluid cooling system and the Three Hybrid/Energi Forums I watch are seeing very few Trans failures now. :) BTW I love my CMAX Hybrid with 158k mi. on it . :) If it ever wares out, I would buy another one. :)

 

Paul

[lolder]

Did the C Max have early transmission failures also? If so, that points to a bearing problem instead of a cooling problem.

[ptjones]

Here is a list of CMAX Hybrid/Energi and FFH failures of which 10 failed with 44k mi. or lest, almost half and the common theme was high % HWY miles. ;( http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5288-mileage-and-build-date-for-ecvt-that-have-failed/ No new ones posted in a year, but it sounds like a new one here and on CMAX Energi Forum. There has been around 200K CMAX and FFH built in the last 4.5 years, doesn't appear to be a serious problem and they were covered by Hybrid warranty. :)

 

Paul